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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:49 pm 
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Dealer/Sponsor

Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:09 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Houston, TX, US
Hello Fellow Audiophiles. I am a manufacturer and a dealer. My name is Vlad(Vladimir Bazelkov) and my Business name is Audio Mirror.
I sold my first amp here in US in 2001. Since than I am in audio business and so far I am doing it successfully and most important I am honest and always stand behind my products. Even products I re-sell as a dealer.
A few weeks ago I decided to try US Audiomart as an alternative for selling audio equipment. Normally I sell on Audiogon and I am so happy with their service and ease of communication.
I posted an ad about Hydra Z which is a AUDIOBYTE product and I am selling it as their dealer. To my surprise after I uploaded the pictures I always use, the ad didn't post and got a "pending" status for the reason that I can not use a stock pictures of the products I sell. When I asked why - the answer was : because I can not proof that I have the equipment in my possession. How stupid is this? Of course I'll use a stock pictures if they are better than pictures taken with my cell phone, with my cat posing and other not so professional stuff. Why I have to open the box and take a picture myself of equipment sold as "unopened" never used etc? Is this something USAM is accusing me or hey presume? I believe if the customer is unhappy - they'll post a feedback about me accordingly? After 3 days exchanging emails (USAM don't provide a phone for customer service) with a moderator who even told me that I am probably new to this business selling audio equipment online, so I don't know how to post ad, the rules etc. I realized - I am fighting a lost cause. He doesn't understand how this buying/selling and feedback machine function. He was following the rules. No one wanted to listen that this rule about pictures doesn't make sense. I took my cellphone and snapped a few pictures. I even sent him a picture of me holding the precious Hydra Z. Now wallaaa my ad was released. The I received another email from USAM trying to convince me not to post negative feedback for them or in any forums. They told me to relax and tried to convince me that I was having a bad day perhaps!
Well I took their advise. I was humiliated, frustrated, nervous I needed a break. OK ... until today.. I was browsing USAM and found another ad from the other dealer of AudiByte(we are 2 dealers for US and Canada), selling same Hydra Z using my stock pictures???? Holly cow? Tell me what to do? This is a pure discrimination and only shows how unprofessional USAM are. Amateurs. Go to Audiogon and post your ads there guys. They are way better than USAM and they have brains, they think and do things that make sense. They are customer oriented people.
Sincerely!
Vlad


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:22 pm 
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Posts: 221
Location: Vancouver, BC, CA
Hello Audio Mirror,

As we explained to you in emails that we traded with you last weekend, if you have an unopened brand new in box item (BNIB) you are free to list it without opening the box, you simply need to take a photo of the box itself showing its brand and model label if possible.

We often have people ask us why they see some ads that have not been reported for the same infractions that their own ads were reported for, and this is purely a result of whether or not users see an ad and report it to us. Luckily, our system is very accessible, and anyone can help report ads for moderators to review.

So if you see ads that break the same rules that you were breaking, you can report those ads. There is a link that says "Report This Ad" at the top right of ads that you can use the alert moderators to any problem ads.

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I'm sorry you find USAM so lacking compared to Agon. We try hard to make USAM a great marketplace for hifi enthusiasts, but obviously as hard as we work there will always be many areas we aren't as competitive as the industry leader, and not all of our rules will be acceptable to everyone. It is a good thing that there is a choice for anyone as to where they wish to operate, and it is IMO a good thing that we have different rules than other marketplaces because each market place must operate as they see fit. So while we hope that you and many others consider using USAM, we won't force you to do so, and we do ask that you abide by our rules and help us enforce them by reporting ads that break them.

Best of luck and thanks for participating.

For those reading, Audio Mirror originally posted 2 threads of the same content, but his second thread I removed because it was an exact duplicate excepting the title "DEALER DISCRIMINATION OR STUPID RULES?". We understand some people object to our rules and may criticize them. We are not afraid of criticism because only through discourse of this nature can we understand how to improve where improvement is necessary. At the end of the day USAM has a set of rules that have worked well to protect our members and to encourage a certain kind of marketplace. We try our best to enforce these rules evenly but we do appreciate the help of those who report ads that we miss.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:58 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:12 am
Posts: 156
Location: Windsor, CO, US
Without rules, chaos and anarchy would run rampant. Maybe you should have read the rules first before using this site. With all of the negative comments you have left here, you should have spent that time taking pictures of the actual product you had for sale.

No one is holding a gun to your head making you post here. If you don't agree with the procedures and rules for this site, just move on.

I've had great luck on here with selling gear and most of the members are really cool and a pleasure to deal with.

As a dealer you should have a little thicker skin.

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"Did I listen to pop music because I was miserable? Or was I miserable because I listened to pop music?"
-Rob Gordon-


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:16 am 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, CA
Hi again Audio Mirror,

I see that you are posting the same complaints to various forums. I have deleted some of the ones that were in the wrong places. While we appreciate and allow feedback on our site we do need to keep it organized.

You can continue to post your feedback in this thread.


I think the crux of the matter is that you started to comply with the rules and things were improving, and then you saw that someone who had also broken the rules had not had their ad moderated. It is true that moderation is not 100% able to catch all ads, and we do rely on users to help report ads they see which are in violation of our rules. We ask that all members abide by the rules even if they see others who break those rules, and if you do see such incidents to please report them. This is not a perfect system, but its also not a form of discrimination, merely a side effect of not having eyes on every ad and ever seller. We do continuously work to improve and automate our detection systems in order to improve rules enforcement and buyer safety, but it is always a work in progress.

You have voiced your complaint and I have offered our explanation as to how it can happen and what we continue to do to address it. We continue to offer a full refund on your dealer fee so you can move on, and of course we will continue to work with you if you instead wish to carry on at USAM, but I do think you need to accept and embrace our rules despite what others are doing, as well as try to maintain a positive composure when faced with inadequacies that you are bound to encounter in any marketplace or site. There is no perfection on the internet, but I do promise you we work hard and always try to improve.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:00 pm
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Location: Rio Rancho, NM, US
MrAudio wrote:
Without rules, chaos and anarchy would run rampant. Maybe you should have read the rules first before using this site. With all of the negative comments you have left here, you should have spent that time taking pictures of the actual product you had for sale.

No one is holding a gun to your head making you post here. If you don't agree with the procedures and rules for this site, just move on.

I've had great luck on here with selling gear and most of the members are really cool and a pleasure to deal with.

As a dealer you should have a little thicker skin.


+1

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Portland, OR, US
It's time to cut down on the coffee. This is really a non-issue and to get bent out of shape about it shows a lack of composure, if not decorum, on your part.

Please remember that we are all guests on this site. Guests are expected to act in a measured, and reasoned, way.

The owners of the site, in an attempt to protect the buyers on this site, have made certain rules. One is that you cannot harvest pictures of products off of the net. It's their bandwidth, and their rules. And I, for one, think this is a very good rule. Most fraudsters are using stock pictures and descriptions of their gear. If you believe that fraud is not a real issue on the Internet that is fine and there really is no reason to advertise here.

Nor is there any reason to complain about your hosts rules. Just move on.

I started trading gear in a print publication called AudioMart over 40 years ago. Well before the Internet was invented. One thing that I have learned is that your time would be better spent moving your brand forward rather than damaging it in a public forum by making intemperate complaints about your hosts.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:09 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Houston, TX, US
I am totally with you guys - I follow rules. But it seems the rules that apply to me doesn't apply to other USAM members - that's why I am complaining.
My ad was banned because of using stock pictures of the product. Another ad by another seller was posting same stock pictures as mine in an ad selling same product?? How come?
His ad was running mine not.
Before USAM would probably remove the other ad compromising their fair judgement I was able to take a quick snap of the other ad. Check it out.
BTW I am paid member $150 is my fee.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:57 am 
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Location: Houston, TX, US
Sometimes my English is poor and I can only blame myself. I want to make this clear - my complaint was not about rules but enforcing them.
Also I still don't understand what's the difference if you post stock pictures or "real ones". How this affect a sale of a brand new item in box?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:03 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Vancouver, BC, CA
Audiomirror,

The ad you mention was probably moderated about an hour after I read your email and reported it to moderators. Had you reported it like I describe above via the "Report This Ad" button it may have been moderated even sooner.

This is not an attempt to remove evidence, rather we're acting on your report.

Sometimes its impossible for us to do anything without being accused of something, but this is not a conspiracy. If you continue to find and report these ads you'll find we take action on them.

As I explained over email and on this thread, there are ads that make it through without being caught by moderators, and others which are not. Yours was caught because you're a newer user to the site and we scrutinize those more close, the other ad was missed as the user has been around longer. I don't think anyone will fault us for looking more closely at mods from newer users, but if both ads are made aware to the mods at the same time I assure you they'd both be moderated at the same time.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:09 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Houston, TX, US
Dear USAM,
My post was not meant for you but for the other participants who was saying that "we are all guests here....."
I am not. I paid for the service. Even if some rules doesn't make sense to me, I should follow the rules and as I said - I totally agree.
Please - the other participants not USAM, I need to hear your thoughts about not being allowed to post stock pictures on your ad?
I think that certain things speak for themselves.Pictures can not fool you. Buyers can easy sense if someone is trying to hide some sensible information or not. Like for example I am posting a stock pictures of a product as a dealer. Anyone can easy go to the manufacturers website and check (if my name is there if there are some doubts). They can also check my feedback to see If am a scammer or not. Also if someone has some concerns, I can be emailed and asked to post some more pictures of the actual product or more information. Curious to hear you guys(not USAM).
BTW between me and USAM everything is cool now.
Happy 4th!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Portland, OR, US
When you go to a hotel and pay for your room are you not a guest who must comply with the rules of the hotel? Why would this site be any different?

Payment of a fee is not a free pass that justifies any, and all, actions.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:21 pm
Posts: 20
Location: RICHMOND, VA, US
My compliments to the Admin who shows tremendous patience all over the site.

I haven't bought or sold here yet but it seems like a well-run place, and pretty free.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 36
Location: Everett, WA, US
Perhaps I am alone in feeling this way, but as others have stated, this is a website where we are all guests. Also, audiophiles, for the most part, are well educated, patient and rational people. I have read the comments from Audio Mirror and I am NOT getting the same feeling for him (them?) that I do when I read other comments from other members of US Audio Mart. The administrators of USAM have explained their reasons and position clearly, rationally. For Audio Mirror to continue to harp on this, and just not make the corrections as was pointed out to him is leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth. I wonder what it would be like to deal with him as a seller? First impressions are lasting ones, and right now, I would pass on buying anything from him.
As it has been stated, make the corrections or move on. I for one, do not find Audio Mirror to be what I have come to expect from members of this community or of this site. A mistake was made by you Audio Mirror, it was brought to your attention like it would be for anyone else so fix it. This is not a forum for playing a "race card" nor are the moderators of USAM singling you out. It is a rule not a caprice on their part.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:38 am 
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Dealer/Sponsor

Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:09 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Houston, TX, US
OK I'll try to make it clear. I was surprised first time when I found that I can not use stock photos. Or in other words I have to take my own pictures and post it. OK it didn't make much sense to me, because the argument was - I may not have in possession the item I am selling. Well I am a dealer sometimes we order this items from manufacturers and they are directly shipped to the buyer. However I followed the rules and complied. OK? Now for my surprise I found another dealer selling 3 different items in 3 different ads, using stock pictures. You can understand how I felt. If rules are for everyone, than let's apply those rules to everyone. After I contacted moderators on USAM they assured me it will be taken care of this. As they stated in their reply it will take probably an hour. It didn't. It took them a day.
It took them 5 minutes to ban my add, but not same rules applied to the others. I felt offended.
Next day I found that 2 of the 3 adds by the same seller using stock pictures was still untouched. Still active? How would you feel guys? The guys with the rules?
Example with the hotel and guests I understand, but it is like you book a room with a fridge, but when you get there, there is no fridge, but all other hotel guests have their rooms with fridge???
What would you do? You complain!!! Right!
Now it's all gone. I "moved on" as you said. It just irritates me when someone without following the story posts something which is not really adequate.
Thanks for understanding.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 36
Location: Everett, WA, US
Hi,
I guess the last post was aimed at me. Well, I was following the threads. I guess where I got a little upset, and hence, perhaps my inadequate statement is why did this not just get resolved between you and USAM without the need for the posts? If the you and the people who run USAM had some long running "feud" and could not come to a successful resolution with there being no real good reason for the rule, then I could understand the posts.
I responded after all was said and done but I still do not really feel that much different. It is just me and I will live with it. I just like people to do all they can behind the scenes to remedy a situation before it gets aired for all to see.


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