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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Montreal, QC, CA
This is very musical equipment, and my kind of music.

AustinTubeNut wrote:
I'm into classical music, ... I use a Simplex record player and Fidelity Research MC cartridge and a tube phono preamp.


I have a Well Tempered Labs GTA. The WTLs, of the TTs I've owned or listened to carefully, seem to me to be the ones that get out of the way of the music best at a price I can afford. By that I mean that when I listen I am not drawn to various sound characteristics, and an appreciation of the reproduction, but instead I pay attention to the music, to the performance. It's lovely. My ears relax. :D

Finding a digital system to give a similar musical feel isn't a cakewalk IME. I've gone from spinners and discs to a Mac Mini and a DAC, and there are DACs now that can give you a musical experience that is astonishing. My favorites are the ladder or R2R DACs like the Audiomats and the Schiit Multibits.

My point being that I don't say one technology is inherently superior. At one time, in the 1980s, that was certainly true. However both digital and analog playback have improved since then, and my feeling is that digital has improved more. I am careful not to make a judgment based on the equipment I have. I keep trying to upgrade each side neck-and-neck, but one always pulls ahead of the other until the next improvement.

They don't sound the same, but if you work with care you can make them equally good — involving, interesting, musically revealing — in your own house.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:04 am
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Location: Wayne, NJ, US
How the playback material was made has way more to do with it than the medium. A very well engineered and recorded DDA piece of Vinyl will sound way better than an average AAA piece of Vinyl. Exact same hold true very well engineered and recorded AAD CD will sound way better than an average DDD disc. But when you get a well made AAA Vinyl or a well made DDD CD you get even more disappointed knowing how good it could sound.....

In the end Joe's ears like A, Mary's ears like B, and my ears like C, debate it all you want.

But t's always entertaining to observe these discussions :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:55 am 
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Location: Homestead, PA, US
Re: CD vs. LP debate. The only possible way for anyone to make an intelligent statement about which is superior is for someone with good "ears" to hear cds played on the worlds finest CD player and then listen to LPs with the worlds finest TT/Arm/cartridge. Anything less than that and you are only talking about limitations of equipment and are not talking about the ultimate quality of CD vs. Lp, whether you realize it or not. Lets admit it, none of us have actually done that and with the unbelievably large amount of equipment out there, chances are, not one of us even knows what is the worlds very best CD player or turntable/ cartridge setup. Which means all these millions of sentences and hours about which is better, is just near useless and unscientific conjecture.
What people with "ears" and proper evaluation can say is just how for instance a highly rated $2,000 CD player sounds compared to a certain $2,000 turntable playing cds vs. LPs in general. In the affordable price brackets which most of us are limited to, with properly chosen equipment it very well could be that the LP sounds a bit more genuine in timber and has a more natural delivery and continuity about it.But not always.I have many cds that I prefer to the LP version, which undoubtedly had different people involved in mastering etc.Its smart to have both and embrace each format for what it does best.
I modify CD players ( for myself only); my ideas are in there, and its only been in the last year or so that I can honestly say that I am not sure if I hear anything funny (artificial) about cds in general anymore. As I learn new tricks with my mods my sound gets better each year, and more analog like, losing the last remaining remnants of that digital "signature".What I thought of cds and their limitations in the past is not what I think now,( actually what I know now). They are unbelievably clear and direct sounding played back on something really good, their tone is purer than the tones you get on most LP pressings,which could sound cleaner if they had gone to more effort in better pressing.I think about the only thing I still notice is that LPs sound like they have a slightly more natural ease about them in their delivery and maybe because of cds propensity toward an edge,which becomes very slight, if at all, on a good player, LPs can sound slightly more natural, but if your average CD downer ever listened to cds on something really first rate on a synergistic system, their inclination would change from thumbing down cds to being surprised and embracing them.Perhaps not over good vinyl but as a very close and valid alternative once you get rid of 98% of the phony digital artifacts, which I know now is possible, and I realize now that its the players not the cds themselves, which I know now are generally great. If vinyl people would ever hear cds played on a truly great musical sounding CD player; believe me; they would want it. The people with the very best playback equipment know that both cds and LPs are way more amazing and realistic than most pepole know.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:01 am 
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Location: Glen Allen, VA, US
This debate is so old. Both formats have there good points and bad. But both depend on care for mastering and recording quality, both can sound superb, or both can sound god awful. Having owned Vinyl my whole life I found no issues with CD's if they are mastered well. No shrill highs, no flat sound, and all the rest the audio mags have stated dishonestly. Sure they can go back 30 years and find CD that sounded bad, was never the format but the recording companies rushing masses of CD's to the market to meet the demand and not taking the time to do it right with care. Whatever format you like is fine, it's about the enjoyment of the music, I play CD's that make you just sit and fall into the emotions of the music, Vinyl can do this all, yes there is some difference but what is real? No Vinyl that is for sure, arm used, cartridge used, table, setting of VTA, tracking, and tone arm all change the sound from warm to bright playing the same record. Then, of course, there is the pressing of the vinyl. My point is not to knock it but to share 30 years of listening to vinyl, selling so many bad pressing, and poor recordings. I kept about 800 vinyl our of the 1,000's I owned because they sounded good, on CD's I have 1,200 or more, and anyone of them played sound good. Hear the master tape which I have at times, and only then you will hear on far-off Vinyl is from what was recorded in the studio. Tone wise and pitch CD or digital is closer. Boomers loved their vinyl, I do also, but this marketing of trashing CD is a joke, the reason it was done, downloading became popular due to nowadays songs, not whole recording our purchased by the Billions, that left boomers outside looking in with no desire in numbers to go that route so that left what they grew up with Vinyl and the magazines did a 180. Read a good LP review and go back a few years and read a good CD review both say about the great sound of the recordings, same goes for reviews on the CD player. So that is marketing and trying to keep a dying hobby going, its a boomer controlled hobby, for years younger folks and been gamers, portable audio, and downloading songs both paid for and for many years free due to Napster, which impacted CD sales which forced recording companies to come up with something to protect their sales, one thing about vinyl rarely will those be printed for free, in hindisght they were theft proof unlike digital that Napster gave away for free .

Still vinyl is a very, very distant 3rd in sales, way behind CD sales and a spec compared to downloads which outsell both by far. Total sales on LP's in a year is less than what we used to purchase in weeks back in the heyday of stereo and vinyl in the 60's and 70's. I have no need to burn my CD's, I just purchased 10 more last week. All sound great and enjoyable. Many of my CD's will never be on vinyl and if they were they are $30.00 or more per LP if released.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:04 am 
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Location: nmb, FL, US
i have yet to hear a cd that sounds the way music should sound.in "way it should sound"..i am talking strictly about the natural timbre,tone and articulation of the instrument ..be it voice,electric guitar,acoustic guitar or drums....i am not referring to specs and numbers...the only thing that matters is how it sounds..have i heard the best cd /digital system in the world? no..but,i have not heard the best vinyl rig in the world either. what i have heard over 45 years is some of the finest cd players in the world in the 3500-5000 range and i currently have a nice digital /analog playback in a highly modified oppo 103 that was first modified by dan wright of modwright..i also have a kiseki purple heart and a nottingham analogue hyperspace.....ive also had top of the line marantz sacd and esoteric cd players years ago.. i have thousands of cd's..i can barely reach for them..the sound of my analog is so so far superior in every aspect i mentioned earlier its almost impossible to p/up a cd...in addition..the vinyl is just more alive,more natural,more soothing,less fatiguing and on and on...ive had a 20,000 dolar dac in the room supplied by a hi end company who played hi rez files for me that he said would kill my vinyl..it did..way louder,way harsher...no where as real sounding.. these are my experiences with digital vs analog...
as far as new vinyl releases of today..i do not buy them..ive heard many of them..dull,lifeless,opaque and more like a cd if anything...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:09 pm 
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Location: Homestead, PA, US
Just when you are confident of vinyl being superior, you discover some great new CD label, the latest one for me is the one Marcus Roberts is recorded on ( can't think of it), and you start doubting your own convictions. I am certain that cds at their best easily beat middle of the road vinyl,( lets call it medium quality vinyl), but Cd's beating great Direct to Disc records or something really well recorded & pressed ? I prefer vinyl greatly on anything that features acoustic guitars. That's the instrument that for some reason never comes off as totally genuine to me on CD. But I have good enough digital players that anything else is no big deal. When deciding what to listen to, its never a question of record vs. cd, but of what I feel like listening to at the time.It's wonderful to have high quality in both formats.


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