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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:34 am 
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Back over at the CA PoE DC thread which is almost dead after running way off the tracks cuesty of Cornan and his wild OT meanerding, false declarations and recommendations.

Some brave folks there still 'dare' to post about PoE DC SQ improvements - how heretical to post something like that on a PoE DC thread! Oh CA!
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Monge
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Posted 3 hours ago
Hi,

I have now tried a kwmobile POE set and 1 m uGreen cat 7 flat 26 awg on a TP-Link TL SG108E switch with SBooster (BOTW P&P ECO) 9V. It gave me a another lift In SQ.
So that made me wonder why it works so Well with the SBooster unit.
So I tried the POE tweak In another setup after an IFI iPower and no magic happened atall.
Hmm...
So I tried a SBooster single unit after the iPower and then the POE set + 1 m ugreen cat 7 flat 26 awg. Then the magic start happening.

My humble observation.
Regards Monge
As we know the SBooster is a fine LPS...far better then a SMPS iPower.

Oh I pity those poor lost souls looking for the sota DC cable solution. And we have it right here - plug and play ready.
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Posted 1 hour ago

I "think" i believe that these "DIY" cables do improve SQ, but I have no desire to build my own cable...unless it is substantially cheaper, and "very easy" (less than 30minutes) to build?
Superdad said in another thread that he does offer a "quad" cable of some sort that is similar to these DIY cables, and someone else mentioned Ghent.
Can anyone confirm that these "off the shelf" cables are the same concept that many here are experiencing "notable" improvements with?
Can someone please share actual links or specific cables that do the same?
That or if someone can summarize a 30minute step-by-step substantial savings DIY cable with parts breakdown?


Cheers!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:04 am 
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Rob, very interesting result on the IBra.
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Looking at the cost of this cable - the 500Ft spool was $6500 = $13/ft. Or about $60 for a 1.5M - add in a 100% mark up for small lengths = $117 then $40 for a pair of Telegardner RJ45 connectors you are at $157. That's pretty interesting. vs $389 for a 1.5M Vodka CAT 7.
My dealer confirmed this was the best they could do so you'll need recruit 100 buyers of 5M each, oh well. He does think that Vodka is the sweet spot in this line, and I noticed that it has the carbon noise reduction layers that Cinnamon doesn't. Vodka lacks the high polish of PSS that Diamond has. Who will be the first to try Vodka?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:35 am 
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danfl75 wrote:
Rob, very interesting result on the IBra.
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Looking at the cost of this cable - the 500Ft spool was $6500 = $13/ft. Or about $60 for a 1.5M - add in a 100% mark up for small lengths = $117 then $40 for a pair of Telegardner RJ45 connectors you are at $157. That's pretty interesting. vs $389 for a 1.5M Vodka CAT 7.
My dealer confirmed this was the best they could do so you'll need recruit 100 buyers of 5M each, oh well. He does think that Vodka is the sweet spot in this line, and I noticed that it has the carbon noise reduction layers that Cinnamon doesn't. Vodka lacks the high polish of PSS that Diamond has. Who will be the first to try Vodka?

Yes the Vodka has the NDS shielding
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CARBON-BASED 3-LAYER NOISE-DISSIPATION SYSTEM (NDS)
It's easy to accomplish 100% shield coverage. Preventing captured Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) from modulating the equipment's ground reference requires AQ's Noise-Dissipation System (NDS). Traditional shield systems typically absorb and then drain noise/RF energy to component ground, modulating and distorting the critical "reference" ground plane, which in turn causes a distortion of the signal. NDS's alternating layers of metal and carbon-loaded synthetics "shield the shield," absorbing and reflecting most of this noise/RF energy before it reaches the layer attached to ground.
I wonder if something similar could be accomplished with additional copper braid layers on the Cin.

The Diamond uses
Quote:
DIELECTRIC-BIAS SYSTEM WITH RADIO FREQUENCY TRAP
All insulation between two or more conductors is also a dielectric whose properties will affect the integrity of the signal. When the dielectric is unbiased, dielectric-involvement (absorption and non-linear release of energy) causes different amounts of time delay (phase shift) for different frequencies and energy levels, which is a real problem for very time-sensitive multi-octave audio. The inclusion of an RF Trap (developed for AudioQuest’s Niagara Series of power products), ensures that radio frequency noise will not be induced into the signal conductors from the DBS field elements.
(DBS, US Pat #s 7,126,055 & 7,872,195 B1)
That's what ferrite chokes do they trap RFI within a magnetic field that raises impedance to very high frequency signals. I'm sure their propriety system works better - but $1000 for a 1.5M CAT cable? :|


Music Direct has a free return policy and they are true to their word - so may give one a try down the road. Having no urge right now as the sound is so incredible already.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:27 pm 
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I guess the DUAL CAT word is spreading! Even these clucks at CA are paying attention.

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Posted 15 minutes ago
3 hours ago, Cornan said:
Another interesting thing happening at US Audio Mart is Tubelover2’s amazing audio flag find at the point when doing a dual Cat8. Sorry, but is’nt that what I did some time ago? Just saying! :D


He should get over the whole poe thing and just go with some good proper gauge separated wire.
Well for the record this is not what he did - and I'm not using that Supra CAT 8 cable as the solid core silver/copper AQ is vastly superior. And he never even tried the PoE just some tangled up raw CAT cables in one of those cheesy .50 cent screw connectors. That was for about 40 minutes of Spotify listening before the Comcast leftover steel coax was the bomb.

I call him Cornan the 'Magnificent' because he claims he can speed up electrons in wire and slow them down with his steel wire cables - to control the amount of bass he gets. Really solid stuff there! What a hoot! :lol:

I've been doing bypass caps for longer then he has had a stereo - and with the LT3045 it makes no sense. On the Stammheims I'll pass for Alexey's new 1.5A board and heatsink case.

I wonder if Cornan the Magnificent and tinnus Charles ever cleaned up those 3in bare wire leads on these Kemet caps - acting as RFI/EMI antenna to pollute the fine LT3045 output - or laying them on top of a LPS and AC cords. Just a real EMI mess. BTW CMag by adding these large caps you are ruining the low impedance out of the LT3045. This is the same chap that was telling folks to wire two 500mA LT3045s in parallel - when Alexey already had a ready made board. All that makes no difference to this Audio ICP
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Or this kind of wiring - leaving unshielded the endpoints
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Posted 2 hours ago
On 7/5/2018 at 12:09 PM, Superdad said:


You are 100% correct and here is why:

Linear Technology LT3042/3045 regulators are completely unlike any other on the planet. Their very high PSRR and ultra-low impedance across an extremely wide bandwidth mean they are “faster” that any capacitor. So putting big caps on their output (even low ESR 560uF ones like Cornan is using everywhere) is totally the wrong thing to do. There is no cap that has a lower impedance across a wide band than what comes right off the 3042/3045. For any other regulator sure. But for the LT3042/45, anything more than the required 10uF “stability” cap is technically going to reduce their performance.

And the above jives with your report about better results adding a Kemets to an original LPS-1. That model utilized the 1 amp Ti TPS7A4700 regulator (the LT3045 did not even exist when we were doing the original UltraCap design).



I just took the Kemet caps off of the output side of my Lt3045, and yes it’s better. I had a bit of the “haze/grain” too, and while very natural sounding just not as good dynamics as no caps on the output side. Using Neotech 12awg teflon hook up wire.
Even tinnus Charles can hear the 'haze'. Using large gauge stranded copper wire is a horrible idea. And why DUAL CAT just smokes this stuff. And using 12 gauge (rated to 20A) is plain silly for these 1/2 to 2A DC needs.

As AQ states:
Quote:
Superior conductor metals minimize distortion by having fewer grain boundaries and less impurities (such as oxides) at those boundaries.

Quote:
Solid conductors eliminate strand-interaction distortion and reduce jitter. Solid silver-plated conductors are excellent for very high-frequency applications. These signals, being such a high frequency, travel almost exclusively on the surface of the conductor. As the surface is made of high-purity silver, the performance is very close to that of a solid silver cable, but priced much closer to solid copper cable.


DUAL CAT PoE DC.3 with ability to easily swap CAT cables with it's Litz with a twist - leaving the RJ-45 terminals and shielding intact is key to min RFI/EMI.

Enjoy the thread fellows!

Cheers!

-


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:20 pm 
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I've had company visiting - so have not had time to do anymore cable rolling. And that Ebay seller '1-800-my-lamps' where I bought the Cin and now waiting for the Forest has to be the slowest seller to ship ever. 8 days and the USPS still does not have the package in their possession. Should have just paid the extra $10 and bought from Music Direct. How do some of these Ebay sellers stay in business?

I've been waiting for this cable to see what a DUAL CAT with just AQ's would sound like.

So with this temporary pause and the major advances in PoE DC since this thread launched I thought this would be good time to recap.

PoE DC.1 - Simple and inexpensive - the first iteration of this amazing SQ improvement. Simple tailed versions the PoE DC injectors:
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5prs for $9
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Set-Pairs-Po ... 2749.l2649

Coupled with either the 2M UGREEN CAT7 flat ($8) or 2M IBRA CAT7 ($11) on Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBRA-6-Feet-CA ... 3b0f551226
https://www.ebay.com/itm/UGREEN-Etherne ... 2749.l2649
So the total cost for around $20. The SQ leap was pretty shocking. But this was only the beginning - with more SQ leaps ahead! :mrgreen:

Next came PoE DC.2:
Upgrading the PoE DC injectors to these single port discrete injectors - also very low cost around $10 for a pair.
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/PoE-Texas-Sing ... 2749.l2649

Then further CAT cable rolling to the Supra CAT 8 that was matched by the 2M UGREEN flat - both bettered by a large margin by the remarkable and unique Audio Quest 1.5M CAT7 Cinnamon - using sota high purity solid core copper/silver composite wires - Hard foamed PE dielectric.
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Next came the use of ferrite chokes to filter UHF RFI used on both ends of the CAT cable or just the end of the cable. These added to the refinement of the SQ, but need careful selection and placement to avoid a tampering of the treble energy.

Then in the final iteration - wiring all 4prs of the CAT cable for PoE DC use. In my case I used the 8 port PoE DC injectors - but the single port could be easily modded to allow this as well. This allows full plug and play CAT cable rolling and no need to hack up a nice CAT cable in case you need to return it (this proved really useful on the 1M and 2M Supra CAT 8 cable I was able to return for a full refund). Or building a sloppy DIY CAT cable with unshielded connections at the beginning and ending of the cable, with though .50cent DC screw down connectors (with a hot debated 5 page

Finally the truly MAJOR advance next post the DUAL CAT PoE DC.3

Cheers!


Last edited by Tubelover2 on Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Interesting report:
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/foru ... ent-846665
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Posted Friday at 09:12 PM
On 6/27/2018 at 9:38 PM, look&listen said:
Now needs time for burn-in & listening to many things in many ways. Later maybe try to put hearing experience to feeble words.

Ok, time for short listening report.
Short version; listen for 13 days, not happy, remove Kemet caps post-LT3045, listen again and big SQ+ very happy now.


More detail: Had startup trouble costing 2 days of looking for intermittent problem & everything check out OK.


1) after reinstall some initial casual listening. then checkin with sound various days. Hear good (soundstage, bass, strings & timbral nuance) & bad (fuzzy midrange & lyrics, overall confused), hope bad go away.

2) after week+ bad SQ effects still same. Read Alex @Superdad comments on relative merits of LT3045 & Kemet caps & after 13 days frustrated by sound, give up on burn-in trial.


3) Take down LPSU stack to remove Kemets from 3 reg. stage 7V PSU & move to Ext-HDD 12V PSU (Sigma 11 variant)*. Similar 12V PSU for server also has same 1120 mfd of Kemet Alu. polymer cap on output bus.


4) Good SQ effects remain if not better. Midrange fuzzy gone, & lyrical clarity some better then before changes, where soundstage big solid, stable increase(!), overall sound, clean highs, nuance of small sounds all significant increases. Hear more variation in recorded bass & soundstage quality. More surprising realism in some tracks & instruments. Just tonight listen to some dsf tracks again, and sound better then described so far. Maybe see/hear a few days from now ?!!


Must say good SQ results not just because of large upgrade of 7.1V USB LPSU & cable, but little upgrades of other 2 LPSUs, cables & AC wiring simplification (still more to do). Some variables were heard in single or small group clusters, others mixed in big batches. Not time to hear every different thing, but think have isolated important things so far.


Things learned:
Thanks for inexpensive low noise parts like R-cores, Schottky diodes, LT3045, low ESR caps, good cable shielding!

Multiple LT3045 ultra low noise regulator modules in singles or series give fine audiophile performance to good gear.
Do not use caps, even fine Kemet Aluminum Polymers, after (or before ?) high bandwidth LT3045 regulators or reduce SQ!
Suspect complete shielding of modules, components & connecting wires important for better sound.
Seems working to millionths and billionths in power supply specs can bring rich rewards!


* More problems after moving caps, frustrating hours later track down & fix intermittent short in new DC cable
So his experience seems to confirm what @Superdad and others (me included) have been saying.

That the Cornan and Charles Kemet cap adds to the LT3045 (needless to say on a DC cable which makes 0 sense) do not make sense from a SQ persepctive. :wink: Maybe from a tweeker cudos ICP perspective yes. :roll:

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:45 pm 
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The 18awg Mundorf Solid Core Silver/Gold/Teflon wire arrived. Rewired one of my DUAL CAT PoE DC.3 injectors.

SQ - Very nice! A notable SQ step up over the silver plated 18awg stranded copper teflon wire. Should be at 18X the price!

Very hard to bend and strip. But worth it.

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For the folks who have asked me to build them some DUAL CAT PoE injectors for them - the 8 ports have arrived as well and will begin to mod those with this sweet Mundorf wire. Should have them in the post in the next day or so.

Cheers!


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 Post subject: Audionote
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:08 am 
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Morning Rob,

The valves in the Audionote dac are Mullard E88CC.

Started reading the 6922 thread; good thread. Did some searches on Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields. Fair few 6N23P; ones with Silver Shields seem rather scarcer. I suspect there is lots of room for being sold fakes via ebay.


M


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 Post subject: Re: Audionote
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:57 am 
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Mr Underhill wrote:
Morning Rob,

The valves in the Audionote dac are Mullard E88CC.

Started reading the 6922 thread; good thread. Did some searches on Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields. Fair few 6N23P; ones with Silver Shields seem rather scarcer. I suspect there is lots of room for being sold fakes via ebay.


M
Hi M, The lessor vintage 6N23P's can be pretty good - but the very best are the '75 and '74 single curved getter post silver shield Reflectors. There are 5 different variants of the 6N23P - the later production (80s and 90's) and dual getter post versions (6N23P-EV) are not great.
The issue with Ebay sellers is not so much counterfeits - as selling noisy tubes - even if they test good. Tubes can show good MT readings and pass emission tests and still have cracking and hissing noise.

Your Mullards may be made in Holland - a frequent practice back then was cross factory labeling. PM me a photo and I can help identify what they truly are. If really Mullards - then you'll be in for a treat with better German, Dutch or Russian NOS tubes.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:07 am 
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Last night's listening session to the Mundorf re-wired DUAL CAT PoE DC.3 injectors was another notch up the SQ chain. The Mundorf solid core silver/gold/teflon 18awg wire made a noticeable improvement in the SQ over the 18awg silver plated copper stranded. Thinking of rewiring my LT3045 boxes with it as well, might be worth the trouble.

Replacing the 1M UGREEN CAT7 flat with the 1M IBRA CAT 7 on the v- of the DUAL CATs feeding the USB hub made a subtle improvement. It did take a few songs to hear the difference. Most notable the depth of the imaging increased. Not nearly the improvement as the same swap on the DUAL CAT's feeding the IR. So I guess it will all depend on what place you have the DUAL CAT's on the UGREEN vs IBRA cabling.

Still waiting for that slow boat Ebay Seller to deliver the AQ Forest 1.5M CAT 7. That I'll swap on the v- of the DUAL CATs feeding the IR. Then I'll try it on the v+ moving the Cin to the v-. Finally will try it with the IBRA on the v- to compare to the Cin.

This DUAL CAT cable rolling is so easy and fun - it's addictive!

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:09 am 
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Just an update one last little mod I made to the DUAL CAT PoE DC.3 injectors. Cut the traces to the little power on LED. Noted a very slight improvement in SQ. No need to power this LED and prefer to have it out of the DC circuit.

My system is sure sounding sweet! Waiting on the AQ Forest - Ebay seller took a full 10 days to ship! It's on it's way now finally.

Have the 24awg Mundorf solid core silver/gold/teflon wire to make the new sota DC link. Will be 6inches long - four wires in a star quad twist. Double layer of copper braid shielding. Just waiting on my Digikey order of SwitchCraft 2.1m plugs.

I will have these available for the non DIYers. For the DIYers the wire is available from Sonic Craft and Parts Connexion.

For the folks who asked me to make the DUAL CATs - I have them done and fully tested - incorporating the above improvement. Wired in 18awg Mundorf silver/gold/teflon. Just burning them in for a half day and will mail later today.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:51 am 
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Tubelover2 wrote:
Just an update one last little mod I made to the DUAL CAT PoE DC.3 injectors. Cut the traces to the little power on LED. Noted a very slight improvement in SQ. No need to power this LED and prefer to have it out of the DC circuit.

My system is sure sounding sweet! Waiting on the AQ Forest - Ebay seller took a full 10 days to ship! It's on it's way now finally.


Cheers!


Hi Rob.....

Had to be away from these forums for awhile due to work, - but (once again) THANK YOU so much for relating all this great work!!!!

I did a search on the ferrite module chokes that you're using, - are these correct? Are you using them on your AQ Cinnamon CAT7 and also the IBRA?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/stardrift-10-P ... 2749.l2649

Thanks again for all!!!

Cheers,


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:16 am 
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albrecht wrote:
Tubelover2 wrote:
Just an update one last little mod I made to the DUAL CAT PoE DC.3 injectors. Cut the traces to the little power on LED. Noted a very slight improvement in SQ. No need to power this LED and prefer to have it out of the DC circuit.

My system is sure sounding sweet! Waiting on the AQ Forest - Ebay seller took a full 10 days to ship! It's on it's way now finally.


Cheers!


Hi Rob.....

Had to be away from these forums for awhile due to work, - but (once again) THANK YOU so much for relating all this great work!!!!

I did a search on the ferrite module chokes that you're using, - are these correct? Are you using them on your AQ Cinnamon CAT7 and also the IBRA?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/stardrift-10-P ... 2749.l2649

Thanks again for all!!!

Cheers,
Hi Albrecht,
It been a while - so much has been happening - SQ at the best ever.

Yes I use those and the Wurth Elec #61's. The WE's go out to 2Ghz - the stardrifts only to approx 600mHz. I do like both on my 2G USB cable right before the IR on both data and power legs.

I use one WE on the Cin at the end point and one on each end of the IBRA's and UGREEN flats.

I need to go back and re-optimize the ferrite chokes on all these CAT cables with the advent of the DUAL CAT PoE.3 injectors. First want to optimize the best cables and combinations.

One day the slow boat will pull up with the long awaited AQForest 1.5M CAT 7.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Tubelover2 wrote:
albrecht wrote:
Tubelover2 wrote:
Just an update one last little mod I made to the DUAL CAT PoE DC.3 injectors. Cut the traces to the little power on LED. Noted a very slight improvement in SQ. No need to power this LED and prefer to have it out of the DC circuit.

My system is sure sounding sweet! Waiting on the AQ Forest - Ebay seller took a full 10 days to ship! It's on it's way now finally.


Cheers!




https://www.ebay.com/itm/stardrift-10-P ... BIDX%3AIT&

Cheers,
Hi Albrecht,
It been a while - so much has been happening - SQ at the best ever.

Yes I use those and the Wurth Elec #61's. The WE's go out to 2Ghz - the stardrifts only to approx 600mHz. I do like both on my 2G USB cable right before the IR on both data and power legs.

I use one WE on the Cin at the end point and one on each end of the IBRA's and UGREEN flats.

I need to go back and re-optimize the ferrite chokes on all these CAT cables with the advent of the DUAL CAT PoE.3 injectors. First want to optimize the best cables and combinations.

One day the slow boat will pull up with the long awaited AQForest 1.5M CAT 7.

Cheers!

Thank you very much Rob. I am psyched to hear your results with the AQ Forest


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:06 am 
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AQ Forest 1.5M CAT 7 out for delivery - finally!

So will now get to test in the DUAL CAT an all AQ solid core silver/copper CAT 7 cabling.

Should be interesting!


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