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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:18 am 
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Location: kitchener, ON, CA
Tubelover2 wrote:
So here is the office DC chain: LPS 8.5VDC>LT3045 7.1VDC>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>BJC UTP CAT6a 1M>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>LT3045 5VDC>Star quad silver teflon 6in shielded cable>LKS USB-100
Attachment:
IMG_1101.JPG


I would like to try the Supra CAT8 between the LEX and REX as well. It has received good reviews as a data cable.

Cheers!

Forgive my stupidity, but I'm really trying hard to understand this!
Is all this new "PoE chain" for improving the DC cable ONLY and has nothing to do with the actual Ethernet (in our case) or with the connection between REX-LEX?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:27 am 
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sima66 wrote:
Tubelover2 wrote:
So here is the office DC chain: LPS 8.5VDC>LT3045 7.1VDC>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>BJC UTP CAT6a 1M>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>LT3045 5VDC>Star quad silver teflon 6in shielded cable>LKS USB-100
Attachment:
IMG_1101.JPG


I would like to try the Supra CAT8 between the LEX and REX as well. It has received good reviews as a data cable.

Cheers!

Forgive my stupidity, but I'm really trying hard to understand this!
Is all this new "PoE chain" for improving the DC cable ONLY and has nothing to do with the actual Ethernet (in our case) or with the connection between REX-LEX?
No you have this correct! As incredible as it may sound - JUST for the DC power connection from the LPS to the LT3045 boxes!

I have more of these PoE injector DC adapters on order to try post the LT3045's. That is before as well as after the LT3045 box.
For $8 a DC link - why not give it a try!

I really have no viable explanation of 'why' this is causing the SQ changes. As I have learned over the years - to trust my ears.
Cheers!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:38 am 
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As i had one extra SSTP CAT6 left over - I just replaced the BJC CAT6A PoE DC link in my office system. And I swear the SQ improved - just a greater ease to the music flow.

I listen here to classical all day as I work. It's a pretty simple DDC/DAC chain: PC Server( PCIe16 USB 3.0 card generic)>JB>Split Forza Twin Copper USB cable>iPur2>LKS USB-100>Quad AD1865 R2R DAC by way of i2s.

No ICRON/Startech, no RuR, no IR, etc...

Power is El Cheapo LT1084/R-Core>LT3045(7VDC)>PoE DC>LT3045(5VDC)>star quad silver teflon>LKS USB-100.

I should also note the Amazing DIY Epitome 10AWG Silver/Teflon (with special HF filtering) power cord feeding the Quad AD1865 DAC from a Art Audio PB4X4Pro.

The ability to hear SQ improvements in this much less resolving system (Pathos Classic MK2/HG tubes, Mission M71i Speakers on sand filled stands) gives me hope that others with similar systems could benefit from the PoE/DC discovery.
Just sounding so sweet and creamy musical now. Love it!
Attachment:
IMG_1104.jpg
IMG_1104.jpg [ 279.59 KiB | Viewed 1365 times ]

Cheers!


Last edited by Tubelover2 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:40 am 
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Location: kitchener, ON, CA
Tubelover2 wrote:
sima66 wrote:
Tubelover2 wrote:
So here is the office DC chain: LPS 8.5VDC>LT3045 7.1VDC>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>BJC UTP CAT6a 1M>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>LT3045 5VDC>Star quad silver teflon 6in shielded cable>LKS USB-100
Attachment:
IMG_1101.JPG


I would like to try the Supra CAT8 between the LEX and REX as well. It has received good reviews as a data cable.

Cheers!

Forgive my stupidity, but I'm really trying hard to understand this!
Is all this new "PoE chain" for improving the DC cable ONLY and has nothing to do with the actual Ethernet (in our case) or with the connection between REX-LEX?
No you have this correct! As incredible as it may sound - JUST for the DC power connection from the LPS to the LT3045 boxes!

I have more of these PoE injector DC adapters on order to try post the LT3045's. That is before as well as after the LT3045 box.
For $8 a DC link - why not give it a try!

I really have no viable explanation of 'why' this is causing the SQ changes. As I have learned over the years - to trust my ears.
Cheers!

Thanks Rob!
So those black boxes, in the picture, are your boxed LT3045's.....right?

Does anyone tried to use John Swenson shielding method on the unshielded BCJ Ethernet cable? That would might make an improvement.
I'm planing to do it, but I have only one cable and I will not be able to compare after! :(


Last edited by sima66 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:57 am 
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sima66 wrote:
Thanks Rob!
So those black boxes, in the picture are your boxed LT30145's.....right?

Does anyone tried to use John Swenson shielding method on the unshielded BCJ Ethernet cable? That would might make an improvement.
I'm planing to do it, but I have only one cable and I will not be able to compare after! :(
Yes they are 500mA LT3045 DIY boxes.

Yes you are right the BJC CAT6a (I use a 1 foot version between the LEX and REX) is an unshielded UTP cable. I have toyed with the idea of adding some copper braided passive shielding (no connected to ground to maintain GI), but never got around to it.

Once these dual shielded CAT7 arrive I may try one with the shielding disconnected from the jack, between the LEX and REX. Same for the Supra CAT8.
Which I hear is pretty amazing for the money.

There is of course the super expensive SoTM $500 dCBL-CAT7 Audiophile Ethernet Cable - that folks who use on their Streamers rave about.

Or there is the obscenely expensive $1100 dCBL-CAT7 Audiophile Ethernet Cable Special Ed
Attachment:
SOtM-iSO-CAT6_Isolator_Special_Edition_1024x1024.jpg
SOtM-iSO-CAT6_Isolator_Special_Edition_1024x1024.jpg [ 47.79 KiB | Viewed 1363 times ]


Not sure if the LEX>REX would get that kind of benefit. Would be nice if iFi did one for like $200. :wink:

I did try a few Ethernet isolators like the Baake and Pro-Tek5 in between the LEX and REX and they hurt SQ badly. Did try a pair of TP-Link FMC powered with LPS's - no change.

The $49 Supra is reasonable enough to try - and mod:
https://audiobacon.net/2017/05/31/supra ... xperience/


Cheers!


Last edited by Tubelover2 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:00 am 
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.........or the JCAT Ethernet cable! :)

https://jcat.eu/product/signature-lan-cable/


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:08 am 
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sima66 wrote:
.........or the JCAT Ethernet cable! :)

https://jcat.eu/product/signature-lan-cable/
$1200 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Paul Pang sells the PACHANKO Ethernet cables as well...
https://www.highend-audiopc.com/shop/en/lan-cables

A 'bargain' at $437 for the totl PACHANKO LAN Cable Itération 1.5m :lol:
Attachment:
PachankoItrationLan.jpg
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And then the real money maker - Audio Quest!
New Rolls Royce for Bill Low!

AQ Vodka for a measly $289!
Attachment:
AQ-Vodka.jpg
AQ-Vodka.jpg [ 82.03 KiB | Viewed 1360 times ]

Got to get into this cable business! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:38 am 
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Location: kitchener, ON, CA
Tubelover2 wrote:

So here is the office DC chain: LPS 8.5VDC>LT3045 7.1VDC>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>BJC UTP CAT6a 1M>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>LT3045 5VDC>Star quad silver teflon 6in shielded cable>LKS USB-100

Cheers!


Wouldn't be better to use both LT's in the end of the DC Cable?!
Having one LT3045 in the beginning of the cable (before the PoE) might not be that effective like having it on the end?!
Just a thought and maybe worth to try! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:19 am 
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sima66 wrote:
Tubelover2 wrote:

So here is the office DC chain: LPS 8.5VDC>LT3045 7.1VDC>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>BJC UTP CAT6a 1M>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>LT3045 5VDC>Star quad silver teflon 6in shielded cable>LKS USB-100

Cheers!


Wouldn't be better to use both LT's in the end of the DC Cable?!
Having one LT3045 in the beginning of the cable (before the PoE) might not be that effective like having it on the end?!
Just a thought and maybe worth to try! :)
Certainly can and will try that once I settle on a CAT7 or CAT8 cable. Note in my main system my 500mA LT3045 boxes have two LT3045 inside (one 7.1VDC feeding a 5VDC) - for the IR, USB hub, SSD, LEX. The Rex has a single 1A dual parellel LT3045. So the PoE/DC is right before these dual boxes - fed by the DC30W Ghent DC cable - which is shielded as well!
https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc12.html
Quote:
Features & Specifications
Oyaide DC-2.1G/2.5G to Aviation GX12-2 Interconnect Canare 4S6 HIFI Power Supply Cable, Single(1pc)
Purely handmade craftwork, genuine material and solid substance
Cable: Canare 4S6 Star Quad, OD 6.4mm, 4 conductors x 20AWG/cond
Connector: Japan Oyaide Golden-Plated DC plug, UL Quality Aviation GX12-2 Plug
Solder: Lead free, Rosin Core with 3% Silver, 0.5% Copper and Tin

Attachment:
dc12-1.jpg
dc12-1.jpg [ 86.12 KiB | Viewed 1340 times ]



I chose the arrangement for the office partly for neatness - running the LPS DC cable under my shelving to the first LT3045. So at that point the PoE DC CAT cable is fed a stable clean 7.1VDC. Then the final LT3045 @ 5VDC would 'clean-up' any noise picked up by the previous unshielded BJC CAT6a UTP cable. Now with a shielded SSTP CAT6 or CAT7 not as much of a concern.

But still why should the PoE injector have any SQ effect at all? :?:

Just speculating (and I know Alex will just blown all this out of the water! :P ), I think the cause of action 'could' be high impedance due to the small gauge of the 26awg copper Ethernet wires is blocking some kind of leakage (highly doubt this as the PoE injector is passive with no GI transformer). The superior 'twist' of a Ethernet cable could instill greater RFI/EMI reduction (this makes no sense - since I'm adding additional cable then before - and still using the Star Quad Silver Teflon to link the LT3045 to DDC).

Lastly - some kind of lowering of the DC impedance of the LPS output. But smaller gauge copper wire would imply higher impedance. And there is minimal voltage lost in these short lengths.

Most likely I've completely lost it and need to check in to a loony bin!
Attachment:
2017-04-15_ent_30201899_I1.JPG
2017-04-15_ent_30201899_I1.JPG [ 25.13 KiB | Viewed 1340 times ]


Delusion or not - I'm loving the sound!
:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Location: PLYMOUTH, MN, US
Tubelover2 wrote:
So here is the office DC chain: LPS 8.5VDC>LT3045 7.1VDC>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>BJC UTP CAT6a 1M>PoE DC to Ethernet passive adapter>LT3045 5VDC>Star quad silver teflon 6in shielded cable>LKS USB-100


Trippy. Sounds so crazy, I *have* to try it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:10 am 
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The IBRA-3-Feet-CAT-7-RJ45-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Cable arrived. The best yet!

Amazing how each of these cables sound different.

So my ranking PoE to DC:

1 IBRA-3-Feet-CAT-7-RJ45-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Cable
2 Vandesail Flat CAT7 LAN Network Cable 3FT
3 CAT6 SSTP Shielded Gigabit RJ45 Ethernet Cable 1Ft
4 BJC CAT6a UTP 3Ft

The top two are very close sounding to each other.

Cheers!


Last edited by Tubelover2 on Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:32 am 
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Location: London, Greater London, UK
Tubelover2 wrote:
The IBRA-3-Feet-CAT-7-RJ45-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Cable arrived. The best yet!

Amazing how each of these cables sound different.

So my ranking PoE to DC:

1 IBRA-3-Feet-CAT-7-RJ45-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Cable
2 Vandesail Flat CAT7 LAN Network Cable
3 CAT6 SSTP Shielded Gigabit RJ45 Ethernet Cable
4 BJC CAT6a UTP

The top two are very close sounding to each other.

Cheers!


Hi Bob
Thanks for the update, so shorter is not necessarily better with the PoEs?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:57 pm 
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tapatrick wrote:
Tubelover2 wrote:
The IBRA-3-Feet-CAT-7-RJ45-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Cable arrived. The best yet!

Amazing how each of these cables sound different.

So my ranking PoE to DC:

1 IBRA-3-Feet-CAT-7-RJ45-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Cable
2 Vandesail Flat CAT7 LAN Network Cable
3 CAT6 SSTP Shielded Gigabit RJ45 Ethernet Cable
4 BJC CAT6a UTP

The top two are very close sounding to each other.

Cheers!


Hi Bob
Thanks for the update, so shorter is not necessarily better with the PoEs?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No shorter at least 1 ft vs 1 Meter not a factor.
I updated the post to show the respective lengths.

There does appear to be at least a 72 hours burn effect.

I should caution folks this is only for PoE(non-std) to Poe(non-std) use. Never try this with any Ethernet data device.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:08 am 
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My second set of PoE injector adapters arrived. First place I tried one is in the office system.

Keeping the CAT7 IBRA Round in place between the first LT3045 (7VDC) and the second LT3045(5VDC).

I replaced the star quad silver/teflon shielded 6 inch cable after that LT3045 which feeds the LKS USB-100 5VDC, with a second PoE/DC connection using the CAT 6 SSTP cable (shielded on the outer parimiter only).

I could hear no difference in SQ at all. Zero effect. So it seems there is no benefit to multiple PoE/DC connections in each DC power chain. One seems to do the trick.

I'm going to try removing the 7VDC LT3045 and just use the 5VDC LT3045 with the PoE/DC in between the LPS DC cable and the LT3045 box.

Tonight I should be able to try the IBRA CAT7 and due to arrive this afternoon UGREEN CAT7 Round (dual shielded) in the main system.

First versus the single shielded flat CAT7 between the LPS and the LT's that feed the IR and USB 3.0 hub. Depending one which sounds better (flat CAT 7 vs dual shielded CAT7 round) - using the other between the LPS LT feeding the REX, and LT feeding the LEX, finally inserting the BJC UTP CAT6a(my last remaining high quality Ethernet cable) as PoE/DC to the LT feeding the SSD.

Once I determine which of the CAT7's I like in this PoE usage - I'll order enough of them to cable the entire main system. I count 5 total there.
Nice to be able run a loom of these for $30. Can't beat that!

Then it's just a matter of a hundred hours burnin.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:50 am 
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OK yesterday did a PoE DC Ethernet cable roll in the main system.

Swapping just the PoE DC Ethernet cable feeding the dual LT3045 box powering the IR.

Rolled the three CAT 7 cable I have recently gotten. The last to arrive Sat morning - the 1M
UGREEN-Ethernet-Cable-Cat7-Networking-Cord-Patch-Cable-RJ45-10-Gigabit-600Mhz

The verdict: They all sound excellent and better then either the SSTP CAT6 or UTP BJC CAT6a.
The most notable effect in the ambient recovery - depth and point imaging recreation of the images in the sound field.
With the CAT7's there was more of that spooky phantasm like realistic projection of vocals and instrument. Another effect is a notable lower floor noise - like the 'contrast' knob was turned up a notch (and with PoE DC a few notches!). So microdynamic features (like cymbal strikes) seem to stand out better, and appear to be floating in air. With the 5ft tall Maggies real sized - just a freaking spooky effect! All at normal volume levels - I noticed this in my office system as well.

On the jazz recording 'Whisper Not' (Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette) (as a Jazz fan ECM recordings are truly miraculous!) I heard the cymbal and drum work of Jack DeJohnette as truly lifelike in image size and clarity - a point source emanating in 3D space. The microdynamics (I call 'snap') was the best ever - crisp with no hint of smearing or blurring. So realistic. This is one aspect of high end analog many rave about - and I concur - in past digital has fallen far short...or flat as I should say. Now with each step up the digital source improvement ladder I have been on - my digital source matched and then surpassed the best I could get from my $30K analog rig (VPI Super Scout Master Sig, VPI Speed Controller, Dyna XV1-s, Benz Ebony, CJ Phono Pre, etc...). At this point it is so much better (due to the much lower background noise levels) as to be ridiculous! But all this detail unveiled - still staying with a rich natural tone. And a creamy, warm, forgiving nature. The best of the best in audio source. :D Certainly exactly what I have been searching for all these decades.

The depth and definition on bass was the best yet as well. The Maggies producing ample bass with a tight defined tone.

The overall character or balance in the sound stayed pretty much the same, with some minor tonal changes per cable - see below:

So my ranking would be (and again they are all very good!):

1)IBRA 3 Feet CAT 7 RJ45 Ethernet LAN Network Cable - Great effects in the sound imaging as noted. A bit of a tilt to the darker side of the Yin-Yang equation. Best Bass of the bunch. It was very close between the Ugreen CAT7 - the greater bass of IBRA was the standout winning feature, keeping all the other advantages over the Flat CAT7.
Attachment:
s-l1600 (8).jpg
s-l1600 (8).jpg [ 130.77 KiB | Viewed 728 times ]


2)Ugreen High Speed Cat 7 RJ45 Ethernet Lan Network - Sweet tone, a touch more musical then the CAT7 Flat. Very slight increase in detail over the Flat CAT7. Same for clarity and holographic projection. A touch more organic.
Attachment:
s-l1600 (6).jpg
s-l1600 (6).jpg [ 57.59 KiB | Viewed 728 times ]


3)Ethernet Cable 1m/ 3ft Black 2 pack Vandesail CAT7 LAN - a slight tilt to the bright side. Excellent detail a noted increase over the SSTP CAT6. Yet with a more relaxed musical presentation. Increased imaging spacial recreation, depth of the sound field, ambient recovery - the winning attributes of the CAT7's over the CAT6's (and a big win with this whole POE/DC endeavor).

Attachment:
s-l500 (1).jpg
s-l500 (1).jpg [ 30.85 KiB | Viewed 728 times ]


I rolled through all three over a number of Rock, Jazz, and Vocal tracks I'm very familiar with - and the results confirmed my impressions. Note the Flat CAT 7 had been running for about a week 24/7 so should be fully burned in. The round CAT7's new out of the box. With time and burnin they should get even better!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBRA-3-Feet-CA ... 2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ugreen-High-Sp ... 2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ethernet-Cable ... 2749.l2649

So now having zeroed in on which CAT 7 I will order more of. I decided to employ the PoE DC to the remaining two DC feeds not having this treatment yet. The LEX and SSD. So I redeployed the CAT7's I have on hand in this order - my guess as to where the greatest SQ effect would be heard:

1)IR - IBRA CAT 7 round
2)USB 3.0 Hub - Ugreen CAT 7 round
3)REX - Vandesail CAT7 flat
4)LEX - Vandesail CAT7 flat
5) SSD(OS only) - SSTP CAT6 round

The SQ improved further with #4 and #5 now in place - but to a lessor degree then #1 and #2. I'll be able to gauge better once 5 more IBRA's arrive that I have ordered. So the whole loom of PoE DC using this Ethernet cable. Since the three CAT 7's where so close don't expect the SQ to improve much. Just the addition of #4 and #5 has brought the SQ to another new high level! And all for $50! Can not beat that :mrgreen:

Cheers!


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