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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:55 pm
Posts: 1
Location: ho chi minh, , VN
About the scams/scammers. I have lost all of my confidence in buying right now not only from US AudioMart but also from other sites.

Isn't it possible to remedy this situation with some stringent restrictions or conditions for buyers/sellers?

I can't determine if announcements are scams (fraud) or not:

Price on the low side
No pictures of equipment
No seller/buyer history

It seems unfair to the sellers that people like me won't even attempt to get in touch with them for a possible "buy", especialy when we are talking about $1000 to $1500 or more!

If there was a seller/buyer clearing service, I wouldn't mind paying extra for peace of mind. Right now I am very disappointed with this situation. This is a great hobby, and an expensive one at that. But on the other hand, I can't afford the prices of new equipment and sites such as this one would provide the solution, but not if it's unsafe to buy! I'm not about to send my hard earned dollars to Canada, or New York, or California to someone that is dishonest, after all, any amount defrauded over $300.00 is a felony with severe prison time, fines, etc.

So why is it that no one, a trade commission of some sort, or law enforcement, has investigated and attempted to taken control of this thievery?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Portland, OR, US
There are escrow services that will not release the funds to the seller, until the buyer has inspected the gear. Escrow dot com is but one. Perhaps that would benefit you. As would buying used from a dealer.

As a seller, I don’t think that the fact that you, or anyone else, won’t contact me for fear of scams to be unfair. Market systems are rarely fair, they simply are.

I am a hobbyist, not a used car salesperson and really don’t need anyone’s money. Nor do I think that the market system that has evolved over the years needs fixing; it has worked fine for me, and many others, since the 1970s. Don’t worry about what is fair for sellers at all. Just do what feels right for you and makes you comfortable.

I buy a good bit of gear from folks with no, or bad, photos, incomplete descriptions, no, or little, feedback, English as a second language, etc. Your chance of having something go wrong under these circumstances increases so it is important to factor that into your offer if you want to play in this league. So if amp X has a used market value of $1000, then I might offer half, or 60%, of that to roll the dice. There are great deals to be had if you assume some risk, but IMHO, it’s certainly not for everyone, and clearly not for you. As a buyer, I’m glad you’re out of the game. That’s less competition for me.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:58 am
Posts: 117
Location: nmb, FL, US
use your common sense,intuition and general knowledge and experience of business. i have purchased 100's of used gear on audiogon,usaudio and mostly on the scariest of all ebay;i only got "scammed" one time...but,still,of course i got money back immediately thru buyer protection ebay/paypal.... have had nothing but fantastic experiences on this site and audiogon...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:54 am
Posts: 9
Location: Southworth, WA, US
Use common sense and pay with PayPal so you have recourse.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:59 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Brownsburg, IN, US
Common sense and good communication practices are all you really need to follow. I won't send money to someone who doesn't communicate openly; email, text or actual phone conversations always take place before I buy. And as a seller, I do my best to make sure we communicate to ensure clear understanding. Very simple and no different than any other transaction.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:12 am
Posts: 225
Location: Windsor, CO, US
timrhu wrote:
Common sense and good communication practices are all you really need to follow. I won't send money to someone who doesn't communicate openly; email, text or actual phone conversations always take place before I buy. And as a seller, I do my best to make sure we communicate to ensure clear understanding. Very simple and no different than any other transaction.


+1

_________________
"Your Mother was a hamster and your Father smelled of Elderberries"


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:37 am
Posts: 3
Location: Quebec, QC, CA
viridian2 wrote:
There are escrow services that will not release the funds to the seller, until the buyer has inspected the gear. Escrow dot com is but one. Perhaps that would benefit you. As would buying used from a dealer.

As a seller, I don’t think that the fact that you, or anyone else, won’t contact me for fear of scams to be unfair. Market systems are rarely fair, they simply are.

I am a hobbyist, not a used car salesperson and really don’t need anyone’s money. Nor do I think that the market system that has evolved over the years needs fixing; it has worked fine for me, and many others, since the 1970s. Don’t worry about what is fair for sellers at all. Just do what feels right for you and makes you comfortable.

I buy a good bit of gear from folks with no, or bad, photos, incomplete descriptions, no, or little, feedback, English as a second language, etc. Your chance of having something go wrong under these circumstances increases so it is important to factor that into your offer if you want to play in this league. So if amp X has a used market value of $1000, then I might offer half, or 60%, of that to roll the dice. There are great deals to be had if you assume some risk, but IMHO, it’s certainly not for everyone, and clearly not for you. As a buyer, I’m glad you’re out of the game. That’s less competition for me.



You mention "English as a second language" as a negative on the same level as bad photos, incomplete description, and no or little feedback.

I find this very point of view quite questionable if not downright descriminatory. Some of the best transactions from the nicest people here were done with Canuckers who might not have not mastered the english language but have true integrity.


Last edited by milag on Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:58 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Oakdale, CT, US
@timrhu, I just recently did all of those and simply got ripped off. Talked to the seller a few times,all seemed good until I paid him and he just disappeared... Sometimes, you just never know.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Portland, OR, US
Milag, first I would like to say that anyone that speaks any language as a second language is way ahead of me as I am bound to but one language and have been unsuccessful in learning any others. I have only the greatest respect for those that learn other languages.

And there are certainly people that speak English as a second language and have a much greater grasp of it than I do as a native speaker. Conrad’s first language was Polish and he became one of the greatest writers in the English language.

That said, I believe that you are reading my post through your own tinted glasses. My list was simply those things that diminish the value of a product in a market economy. They were not value judgements on the worth of an individual, and nowhere did I say they were. That is your prejudice. I never brought up someone’s integrity, that is simply you reading into it.

What I did say is that these factors diminish what I, and many others, will pay for an item. As far as English as a second language goes, absolutely, if the seller and I can’t have a clear communication than there is a much greater chance for misunderstandings and a greater likelihood of problems with the sale. That should be clear on the face of it.

This is not to denigrate someone who does not have a firm grasp of English, nor should I be diminished for not being able to communicate in the sellers native tongue. But it Is a factor that adversely affects the likelihood of an effective sale. In the same way that poor pictures obscure the image, two people not able to communicate clearly can also obscure details. And sellers pay for that. It’s not a value judgement about the character, or worth, of the individuals involved, it’s simply a reality of the market place, IMHO.


Last edited by viridian2 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:37 am
Posts: 3
Location: Quebec, QC, CA
viridian2 wrote:
Milag, first I would like to say that anyone that speaks any language as a second language is way ahead of me as I am bound to but one language and have been unsuccessful in learning any others. I have only the greatest respect for those that learn other languages.

That said, I believe that you are reading my post through your own tinted glasses. My list was simply those things that diminish the value of a product in a market economy. They were not value judgements on the worth of an individual, and nowhere did I say they were. That is your prejudice. I never brought up someone’s integrity, that is simply you reading into it.

What I did say is that these factors diminish what I, and many others, will pay for an item. As far as English as a second language goes, absolutely, if the seller and I can’t have a clear communication than there is a much greater chance for misunderstandings and a greater likelihood of problems with the sale. That should be clear on the face of it.

This is not to denigrate someone who does not have a firm grasp of English, nor should I be diminished for not being able to communicate in the sellers native tongue. But it Is a factor that adversely affects the likelihood of an effective sale. In the same way that poor pictures obscure the image, two people not able to communicate clearly can also obscure details. And sellers pay for that. It’s not a value judgement about the character, or worth, of the individuals involved, it’s simply a reality of the market place, IMHO.



I agree, you did not bring up the subject of integrity. But this is what I made of your statement, tinted glasses or not. And by your using the expression "tinted glasses" you somehow blame me for not "understanding" your comment. In my humble opinion, there are dozens and more parameters that could complicate a transaction of audio gear, or even communication, on any forum. Yet your (very) short list singles out inefficiencies in the English language as one of them !

It's ok, you are allowed to your opinion and explanations. As I am to mine.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:30 am
Posts: 4
Location: Auburn, ME, US
sharethemusic wrote:
use your common sense,intuition and general knowledge and experience of business. i have purchased 100's of used gear on audiogon,usaudio and mostly on the scariest of all ebay;i only got "scammed" one time...but,still,of course i got money back immediately thru buyer protection ebay/paypal.... have had nothing but fantastic experiences on this site and audiogon...

I've been using these sites mentioned by share, and I've also had most often only the best experiences. I only go through Paypal. I've had dealings with really excellent sellers who know their stuff and care about their transactions.

I have had some so-so communications with potential sellers who won't add photos, who don't answer questions, who respond 2-4 weeks late. There's usually clear warning signs. I can understand that buyers get really enthusiastic about their hobby, but the recommendations provided by USAM and eBay, if heeded, really prevent unpleasant situations.

I was looking at an amp recently, and the person advertising had stated the unit was mint, and the photos were somewhat blurry, and they showed scratches and a considerable dent on the faceplate. Really makes ya wonder if they've had success with such methods in the past.


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