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 Post subject: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:23 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Henderson, NV, US
After years of fairly smooth sailing both here and on A'gon, I've run into a new challenge - the deadbeat buyer.

In both cases, the prospective buyer peppered me with questions about specs, features and shipping cost. Once satisfied, each made me an offer which, after some back and forth, was accepted. Both sent me PayPal info and committed to pay that night or the next day. And then - nothing...

When I finally tracked one of them down, he said something about "another amp". Well dang, thanks for telling me! And even more frustrating was, in the middle of each transaction, I was contacted by another interested party whom I told "sale pending" because I'd committed to sell to these time-wasters. And, at least on my end, I try to live up to my word.

Each of these buyers had their own ads here so they know how things work. So fellow sellers, how much latitude do you give a buyer during the course of a sale?

John


Last edited by admin on Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
We do not allow feedback or mentioning of specific names in "deadbeat" discussions


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:12 am
Posts: 227
Location: Windsor, CO, US
Well if it's any consolation, (which I know it's not), that same thing has happened to pretty much all of us. I really miss the good old days when people did as they said, but we live in different times now.

Just remember it's not personal and just move on.

I've always wished there could be a separate feedback section for just this very thing. Not sure if it would do any good, but it might be worth a try.

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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:23 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Henderson, NV, US
MrAudio wrote:
I really miss the good old days when people did as they said, but we live in different times now.


Guess that’s unfortunately true. Though I’m not going to change my approach of taking folks at their word - otherwise the bad guys win :wink: ...

John


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Portland, OR, US
I give buyers all of the lattitude that they need. And yes, I had a dead beat buyer last week as well, LOL. No big deal.

It’s part and parcel of dealing on the internet, and it’s not for everyone, that’s why dealers have nice trade ins from time to time.


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:23 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Henderson, NV, US
viridian2 wrote:
It’s part and parcel of dealing on the internet, and it’s not for everyone


I've had plenty of buyers kick the tires and say they're really interested before radio silence occurs, no big deal and I agree it's part of the game.

But for a buyer to make an offer, have that offer accepted, give you their shipping info and ask you to send them a PayPal funds request to complete the pending sale - and then ghost you - is some next-level stuff.

I agree with MrAudio, there should be someway to leave feedback for these folks...

John


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:03 pm
Posts: 270
Location: Vancouver, BC, CA
Currently we do not allow feedback for deals that don't end up going through on classifieds because there's no formal framework to capture the "agreed intent" short of looking through emails. However, if you wish to have a chance of more solid deals, there are currently 2 options:

  1. You can enable Buy It Now, where buyers pay upfront to complete a transaction. (this incurs a closing fee from USAM)
  2. You can initiate an auction, where auction winners make a commitment to buy. Auction winners who don't follow through get automated negative feedback. (this too has fees)

We are considering adding an optional paid "Allow Offers" feature in the future as a 3rd option. This feature would allow sellers to add a new button to the add called "Make an Offer", so that sellers can request or insist that a serious buyer Make an Offer on the ad. Offers would become binding agreements once accepted. It would essentially carry the same % commission concept as Buy It Now and Auctions, and also carry the same negative or neutral feedback consequences. This is an optional feature because some sellers prefer the simple classifieds model, while others like the structured approach of an Offers model.


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:12 am
Posts: 227
Location: Windsor, CO, US
admin wrote:
We are considering adding an optional paid "Allow Offers" feature in the future as a 3rd option. This feature would allow sellers to add a new button to the add called "Make an Offer", so that sellers can request or insist that a serious buyer Make an Offer on the ad. Offers would become binding agreements once accepted. It would essentially carry the same % commission concept as Buy It Now and Auctions, and also carry the same negative or neutral feedback consequences. This is an optional feature because some sellers prefer the simple classifieds model, while others like the structured approach of an Offers model.


This would be very nice. It makes it very easy for both sides. Accept, Decline or Counteroffer. I do a lot of sales and buys this way.

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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:23 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Henderson, NV, US
MrAudio wrote:
This would be very nice. It makes it very easy for both sides. Accept, Decline or Counteroffer. I do a lot of sales and buys this way.


I'd also be in favor of this...

John


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:42 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:26 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Portland, OR, US
It happens to all of us. I've even had a buyer who asked me to write up an invoice and then refused to give me his phone number because it was "government issued". :lol: After that, I hesitate if things go too smoothly.


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:13 am
Posts: 14
Location: arlington, MA, US
Try telling them the item will remain as for sale until payment is received there is no need for delay with PayPal if someone pays before them thats their loss. At least get a down payment to hold item.


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:35 am
Posts: 3
Location: Sayre, PA, US
johnto wrote:
Try telling them the item will remain as for sale until payment is received there is no need for delay with PayPal if someone pays before them thats their loss. At least get a down payment to hold item.



I totally agree with johnto. That's the way to handle it.

Anything else (like suggested by the site administrator and some others) is getting a little tooooo close to the A'Gon realm of micro-management of your sale to me.

This is the anti-Audiogon site. Remember? Let's not muck it up with complexities that are just stupid.

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:49 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Klamath Falls, OR, US
My problem with Audiogon is if you receive negative feedback, no matter how ridiculous, you are guilty as charged. No exceptions and no deleting it.


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Chilliwack, BC, CA
Every ad I place it is pretty much standard language for me to put, no deadbeat buyers, no time wasters, and no craigslist buyers
...and even still you end up with the odd loser. I guess it is a different world nowadays


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 73
Location: Everett, WA, US
Millennials....


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 Post subject: Re: Deadbeat Buyers
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 73
Location: Everett, WA, US
Alas, after so many years in audio, and thinking that perhaps I was the lucky one, I have been suddenly been barraged by the type of buyers John described at the beginning of this post. It also makes me agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Audio when he states that he misses the old days when people meant what they said and said what the meant (some apologies to Dr.Seuss here).
After receiving more than a few emails from a potential buyer with several questions, and answering all of those, we haggled on a price and came to a mutually agreed upon price. The buyer was local and wanted to hear my amp. He said he had no doubts as to its performance (a $6000 amp in its day which now costs $16K). The buyer was leaving to go out of town for the weekend but wanted to hear the amp when he came back to town. I made sure that my wife's schedule and mine would not be such that the buyer would not be able to make it to my home sooner than later. I even rescheduled a doctor's appointment. Then it came; the email in which the buyer said he did not go out of town but rather bought a pair of monoblock amps for a lot less and he had a seven day trial but if he did not like the amps then he wanted mine. I will not go into product bashing other than to state the amps he bought are from a company that lasted in business for less than two years, are now 20 years old and certainly are not on a par with what I had offered him (and I mean this truthfully - this is not because it was mine amp. I think anyone here would agree should they see the comparison). The amps he bought were advertised on Ebay from a local hifi store in the area.
It would have been one thing for the "buyer" to have listened to my amp, said he had another amp(s) that he wanted to audition and get back to me. Please don't make an offer and then tell me he bought something else. Perhaps I am lucky in the long run as I do not feel the buyer would have appreciate what he was getting with my amp. He is what I call a numbers guy - the more watts, the bigger the number, the better the product as it came across to me in his emails. So John, and others, I have been sniped at and wounded. Frustrating to say the least to schlep around a large amp, make all the cable adjustments, re-arrange a schedule, send out emails to get the "Dear John" audio letter.
Yes John, and others, I too miss the old days and the chivalry of sorts that used to exist between the sellers and buyers. I know, I know, it still exists, but to me, not in the numbers that it once did.
Did I mention the person who agreed to sell me a set of interconnects at a set price, then sold to someone else for more money before I responded, and then offered me a like pair for much more money than the original offer made to me? Round 2 for the week! Time to get out the Kevlar...


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