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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Location: Everett, WA, US
I admit it; I am a English language snob. I was raised around a sister who was an English professor as well as coming from a family of teachers; sisters, wife, daughter. They all have an influence on me and the way I speak and write. While I do not expect the great American novel when reading about an ad where someone is selling their prized possessions, there are some things that are just downright annoying. I am sure that I have you on the edge of your seat, so perhaps someone out there in the land of audiophilia can explain these two things to me:

#1: The use of the word "minty". Here is the definition: minty. Adjective. (comparative mintier, superlative mintiest) Having a flavour or essence of mint.
There is no way that an amplifier, preamp, cables or anything else that we use in the land of the high end has a minty flavor to it. The word people, is "mint", as in mint condition. Minty describes your mouthwash, your ice cream, not your speakers.

#2: Then there is this as well (and it goes something like this): "If you are reading this ad then you know what this (fill in the blank) is all about". Well, no, no I don't. I read to educate myself. And perhaps I have never heard of your (again fill in the blank) so I am looking at the ad because I am interested in it because I do not know what it is. And by you telling me that I already know about it makes me NOT want to buy whatever it is you are selling. Assume we know nothing. If we do know, then great. If not, then what better way to sell something than to tell us all the great things it can do, correct?

Am I alone in this? Is this a phobia for which I need to seek out counseling?


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:35 am 
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@zkidd, another one is "gear" in the plural. It's remarkable how many people think their hi-fi equipment has a transmission.

Practically speaking, these sorts of errors represent one of many possible signs that a scam may be in the offing. No matter how interested I may be in the gear, they make me wary about a seller.


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:24 am 
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Location: Chilliwack, BC, CA
@zkidd

Please don't read any of my ads as you are most likely to find many grammatical errors. LOL

I think I am guilty of using the term "minty"

Urban dictionary minty: as to imply in mint condition (I just made that up)

As to the other thing you are talking about in ads that say "if you are looking at this, you know what it is"
I am guilty for using it too. You usually see the phrase when advertising more expensive equipment.
Someone looking for cheap stuff most likely wont even click on the ad...if you are curious, you can always do a google search

This is my pet peeve or whatever.
Sometimes you get time wasters on CAM Canuck Audio Mart, but people usually respond in a polite manner.

I recently sold a car, car audio amps, and some furniture on Craigslist.
I know what a lot Craigs buyers are like already. Standard language for Craigs you have to put in the ad
serious inquiries only please, no time wasters, if the ad is up it is still for sale

Now in our modern world and texting you get responses like...still for sale, still got, how much, u sell, u sold, offers, $????
I wont even respond to losers like that. If you are serious about my item you had better learn how to respond in a proper polite way.
As in writing Hi or Hello first, then your response, then leave a name. None of these 2 word inquiries.
Rant over


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Location: Everett, WA, US
Hi All,
I did not want to appear to be someone whose head is located in any other place than on my neck and above the shoulders but I also I appreciate the responses.

Yes, "gear", and I may have been guilty of that one as well but I think just once as I got myself. Hey, I do not expect a doctoral thesis here but some ads, remarks and inquiries do scare me and makes me shy away from the item for sale no matter how badly I might have wanted to make the purchase. Perhaps I am a snob, plus I also look at generational differences, but this is the high end. For the most part this stuff is expensive and not everyone can afford it. I do not mean that to sound elitist but hey, I cannot buy a Ferrari no matter how much I would like to. My point is that I have expectations on this website as well as others. The vast majority of people with whom I have dealt are outstanding people with manners and civility. (Is that redundant?) Anyway, when I communicate with these people and I get a polite response, and things are spelled correctly and sentences make sense, I tend to believe that they have indeed taken care of their equipment and if I purchase it, it will be as they say.
Perhaps after 38 years of dealing with the public, and for the most part the lower end of it, I just look to USAM and other sites like it for people who have the manners, and "presence" that I have come to expect when meeting other members of the audiophile world. Shortcuts on ads and words I do not recognize make me nervous about the true care of an item. Perhaps I am projecting too much of my life's experiences into things.
I appreciate the comments, especially where the this comment was made: Now in our modern world and texting you get responses like...still for sale, still got, how much, u sell, u sold, offers, $????
I wont even respond to losers like that. If you are serious about my item you had better learn how to respond in a proper polite way.
As in writing Hi or Hello first, then your response, then leave a name. None of these 2 word inquiries.

I have made several friends off of sales I have done. These friendships have lasted for years, and they developed because the people knew how to communicate. Because of the friendliness of their communications, I have been more compelled to do them favors, like help with shipping, take deposits on items and hold onto the item until they could pay in full, etc. I am not saying this to make me the bigger person but to emphasize the importance and results of mannerly behaviors.

I will now get off the soapbox. Again, I appreciate the comments and I got a good chuckle out of many.

My regards to you all....


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:49 am 
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The use of "mint" as a descriptor is a term that I find inaccurate and subjective. I once got a one year old preamp from a heavy smoker described as mint. It reeked so badly that I had to store it in the garage waiting to return it. He was blissfully unaware that it smelled.

When I see an ad described as mint or minty, I move along to the next ad.

A more accurate description method is to use a grading scale such as audiogon scale and assign a point value of 8/10, 7/10 etc.

Using the term mint is often an overstatement and just lazy if not deceptive. To me, something that is truly mint 10/10 condition is difficult or impossible to discern from new including having all the accessories, packing, no fingerprints, dings, scratches, dust, etc. But many sellers are too lazy or hazy to detail the condition or don't want to be pinned down.

And agree on applying the term "minty" to audio equipment.
As Morgan Freeman spoke in Shawshank Redemption: "I know what you think it means, sonny, but to me it's just a made-up word..."


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Location: Cary, NC, US
Common ad grammar:

For sell.
Good conditions.
Trying to sale.
Produces excellent base.
Subwoofers (when only one is for sale).

And then no photo and no feedback AND the item is miscategorized. Great :)

Any my pet hate: Solid state or Class D amps that the user thinks sound tube-like listed as tube amps.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:25 pm 
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RE: zkidd

Greeting,

"Minty" is a colloquialism used in any number of setting. It probably started with eBay or could be much older. It is just a lazy way some folks relate condition when an object is not brand new but not quite showing obvious wear. I don't care for it's use and won't say it in my descriptions, but it doesn't automatically make me shut down when I read it in listings. Don't take offence to it, just move on is my advice.

Yes, there is a sense of clique-ishness and exclusivity towards outsiders in the audiophile world and that manifests itself in the way listings often go up, in trade journals and on-line posts we read. Like you say, this generates the aloofness whereby someone thinks they need not explain too much when the "whatever" holy grail item pop ups in their description, since 'everyone knows' about it anyway. I would guess the same attitudes inhabit any number of pastimes like car, coins, guns, instruments, books, cameras, records, whatever. Don't read too much into any instance of seeing that "needs no introduction" line, just google it and brush up and then you're up too date.

I myself don't list things like the above examples - but there are no rules; keep in mind everyone has a different personality and it won't be like yours. Just stay cool going about your perusing and if things don't ring with you, heck just move on.


Last edited by dreaming on Mon May 29, 2017 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:28 am 
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zkidd wrote:
I admit it; I am a English language snob. I was raised around a sister who was an English professor as well as coming from a family of teachers; sisters, wife, daughter. ......Am I alone in this? Is this a phobia for which I need to seek out counseling?


In a word "Possibly", you may benefit from some form of counselling. Your level of demonstrated irration gives indication there may be deeper unlying issues you are responding to in getting irritated with colloquial expressions like "minty" and ill formed grammar in ads.

It is possible you have overlooked the fact that this is an Audio Club, not a Grammar Club; and as such there is no minimum requirement for literacy and ad writing skill for participation.

This is a classic case of missing the value of the content for dislike of the container. The content is the product the ad is representing. If its a product you are interested in, have a go. If not, let it go. Simple as that.

..... and before you get all riled up and tackle my diction or punctuation.... Chill Man.... I'm having a go at you for being a bit over the top.
:wink:


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:19 pm 
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This is a classic case of missing the value of the content for dislike of the container. The content is the product the ad is representing. If its a product you are interested in, have a go. If not, let it go. Simple as that.

I take no offense (is it "offence" in Canada?) to what you are saying. I actually did not mean I think I need counseling as that was an attempt at humor. If we are going to dig even deeper, I cannot use abbreviations when I text, I spell the words correctly and I still use punctuation that is as close to being proper as it can (in texting). As to the content of the ad, and not liking the container but missing the content, I still see no content when an ad tells me "that if I am looking at this ad, then I know what it is". Well, still, no I don't. To use your analogy of container, label and contents, I can look at a container and still not be certain of the contents. This would prompt me to ask someone for help. Again, to me, and perhaps just me, if someone wants to sell an item, give information. I never assume anyone knows all there is, especially in the land of "audiophilia" as there is so much and it changes quite frequently; just look at DACs.

I have scheduled an appointment to have a lobotomy done so soon this will all be behind me. I curse having an upbringing where spelling, writing, punctuation etc. all had meaning and importance. As a person who was in a profession where accuracy in documents was extremely important, I use that critical eye to exam. As no one knows the character of the person behind a document/ad, the presentation of the written word is all we see and often the basis of a judgement, consciously made or not. We all are products of our upbringing and environment and this is my observation. I was simply wondering if others felt the same as I.

Lastly, I believe someone mentioned that certain verbiage used in ads can indicate a "laziness" on the part of the person placing the ad. (I might be paraphrasing here). My reason for having worries about grammar and all is this: When my daughter was applying to gain admission to a college or university, many of those institutes had the applicants write a biography of themselves. At more than one university, a person from the admission's office told the students this: "If you write your biography the way you text or communicate with your friends, you will make our jobs so much easier as your biography will go into the file known as the garbage can". Point being is what is normal and acceptable with friends often becomes a habit that can mar a professional position or attempt at such. I do not expect, as I stated, to have an ad read like an intellectual document or a document meant for academicians but simply that it read well and I can trust that the person is accurate and forthcoming. I have no doubt that there are many who can look past things I do not but anecdotally I have found that people whose ads are rather disjointed, non-existent in the description of the item are the same people who rarely respond to any inquiries I have made, and if they do, the answers are usually not helpful at all.

Man! I need to shut up here. Anyway, the rant is over, the surgery is scheduled soon and afterwards "I to kan right an add that will bee just like sew many others.."


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:25 am 
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LOL (acronym for Laugh Out Loud, a term indicating appreciation for a previously expressed point).

Don't Do It! Surgery is not the right course. If it was not for people like you upholding the standards for the written and spoken word we would devolve in communication. Just know in advance that in holding the line on a 98 percentile position, it means 98% of others are not going to measure up.

That next great amp or pair of speakers you're interested in is the object of your intent, not the ad.
If you don't like the words, you can always look at the pictures. After all, remember, a picture is worth a thousand words! :lol:


Last edited by Digital Don on Tue May 30, 2017 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:46 pm 
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aslater wrote:
The use of "mint" as a descriptor is a term that I find inaccurate and subjective. I once got a one year old preamp from a heavy smoker described as mint. It reeked so badly that I had to store it in the garage waiting to return it. He was blissfully unaware that it smelled.



Please note that USAM uses the same rating system as standardized by Agon, which is to say, Mint is very specific. See here:

http://www.usaudiomart.com/grading_scale.php

If you believe someone is not using this rating correctly please report the ad and we will do what we can :)


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:10 pm 
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I hope to have a more intelligent experience at sites such as this one compared to the 'lower sites' such as Ebay. Simply put, I am not poking around at a garage sale site, but hopefully a more professional site where those who are selling equipment, at least have an idea of it's use, and maybe treat it decently in their system. When describing the equipment for sale, condition, accurately described, is important to me. That is where we rely not on shortcuts but an attempt at proper English for the sake of being understood. "Works great", "minty", or "as is" in and of themselves, tell me very little about the product.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 8:51 pm 
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And in reply to 4krow's response, yes to everything that you wrote, and an "amen" to it as well. Thank you. You understand my point exactly.


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:40 am 
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zkidd wrote:
"Cherry"....(as opposed to "minty").


Now you're moving from neurotic behaviour to msyogonistic behaviour.
I take my previous comment back.... Get the lobotomy you previously mentioned!.
I'm unsubscribed to this post going forward; and have reported it to admin.

Misogyny (/mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including social exclusion, sex discrimination, hostility, androcentrism, patriarchy, male privilege, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification.[1][2]


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 11:57 pm 
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The word "cherry" refers to a vehicle or item that is in mint condition, hence the inclusion of the definition. One hears the word used at classic auto shows, car shows etc. I am not sure why the violent reaction as it was intended to show how words in ads can be ascribed improperly, just as how you reacted. Perhaps it is not in Canadian vernacular just as we do not use the word "zed" for anything, but ask any US male to describe a car or almost anything mechanical from a vintage standpoint and if they are over the age of 40 or so, you probably would hear the word.


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