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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:36 pm
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Location: Pasadena, CA, US
Anybody else who is selling on here experience this? I've gotten several people who tell me they'll give me (blah blah offer) for an item I'm selling. If it's not a bad offer, I'll reply that it's okay, let's deal. Then I'll never hear back from them. When I checked their history here, I've found that they had just registered. One guy told me he has a good history on another well known audio site, but I couldn't find him there. If they are scam artists I'd think they'd follow through and try to pull whatever they're intending; but I'm putting it down to typical Craigslist (or for you Canadians - Kijiji) type flakes. I'm curious to know how wide spread this is here, as it's something that mildly surprises me on an enthusiasts forum.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
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Location: Everett, WA, US
Hi Stmike,
I could not agree more with you! In fact, just today I emailed a friend and complained about the types of responses I am getting to ads as of late, and referred to the replies as "Craig's List-esque" replies. I would get the "Is this still for sale and what is your bottom price" type of questions, and then when you reply and tell them what they want to know, the go MIA. No "thank you" for the reply, no acknowledging that they even got the reply. I recently was selling a very large and powerful amp, not just in watts per channel but in current delivery. This was not your "run of the mill" 250 wpc amp but an amp that was the flagship of a very well known and respected high end manufacturer. Oh brother! The inquiries I got! I am not trying to sound like a snob or anything, but this amp is not just another amp. To think of this amp like any other is like saying a Rolls-Royce is no different than a Toyota. Yes, the amp has transformers, transistors and all but it is the way that the amp was constructed that made it different. To all of the people who sent inquiries, the amp was just another amp, and no one had a clue as to what they were looking at. In the past the large part of the people who sent emails or inquiries knew what it was they were looking at and had done their homework. Now is seems to be all about a few specs and those specs are just like any others.
I have also posted two messages in which I mentioned the lack of civility in messages; no niceties if you will. How difficult is it to say "Thanks" or "Your welcome", the things that our parents and teachers told us to say back in kindergarten. Now it is just a lot of misspelled words, loosely put together sentences that need a translator to decipher without so much as a greeting, a pleasantry or acknowledgement that your message was received.
It is not just a Craig's List thing but a bit of Ebay thrown in as well. And yes, a lot of the inquiries I have received as of late are from people with "zero" feedback. When I would reply and set some conditions for the sale because of the lack of feedback, it was like I was the a**hole here. Hey, no feedback and you expect me to do all sorts of things? I passed. The arrogance was stifling...I fear that it might be the wave of the future as it is a pattern of behavior throughout a lot of society as a whole. I did recently meet a young man (28) who bought some speakers from me and he was a breath of fresh air- respectful, anxious to learn, knowledgeable. We made a sale and I met him personally and he paid cash. I was very impressed after we parted but one would not be surprised either by his demeanor after having read his emails in response to my ad. I mentioned this in my other forum messages and it goes like this:" The way you do anything is the way you do everything". The responses that you describe make me very leery of any kind of good and happy dealings...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:36 pm
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Location: Pasadena, CA, US
Thanks for your thoughtful response Zkidd; I suspected I was not alone in these experiences. I usually put my items for sale on Craigslist at the same time as on here (and usually have better luck selling there due to prospective buyers being able to come over and audition, although I do have to wade through many bs responses beforehand). But it is frustrating to have someone on a website such as this make a reasonable offer just to see whether it'll be accepted, and then disappear. I guess that's the world we live in now.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:03 pm
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Location: Vancouver, BC, CA
Could you report a few of the responses where the user disappears and it's from a recently registered user? I'd like to investigate if some of these are scammers fishing for victims. You can report replies when looking in your ad and scrolling down to the replies.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
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Location: Everett, WA, US
"Too" not "to". Ugh! Not being very smart...

As to the posting by the administrator, the MIA folks I experienced were response to an ad (though I had the same ad here) on another site. I did check their email addresses and I was able to track them down as two locals. I think they were (are) just of that mindset that this is what they always do so to them, it is "no harm, no foul". I am going through one supposed "offer/sale" now though, where I am supposed to be getting a money order in the mail. Though I have repeatedly told the people I do not want to sell, they seem insistent. So now I am now playing along as I really want to see what this money order looks like, and take it to my local bank. I am a retired detective lieutenant and I have reached out to some of my former colleagues to see what they can glean from this "money order". Once I have some idea of a bank, location of the seller and so on, I plan on contacting the more common audio websites and give them a "heads up". What alerted to me as this was a scam was there was no dickering on price, no answers to direct answers to questions I would ask, their insistence on handling all the shipping (which is considerable as the item weighs over 100 pounds) and most of all, the large majority of people who buy like to tell you why they want it, want it will be partnered with, your experiences with the item, and just general good natured "audio" conversation. There was none of this. And yes, my "snobbery" is showing through (again, see a previous post of mine) but there were no capital letters used, no punctuation at all. It was just one continuous run-on sentence. And those always scare me....


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Location: Rio Rancho, NM, US
zkidd with the few details that you have provided so far, imo this would-be sale really stinks to high heaven.

Did they mention my or our "agent" when they claimed they would take care of the shipping carrier details? If so, it reeks of the standard-issue Nigerian scam: no questions, no dickering on the price and the obligatory phony money order. If the amount of this m.o. is in excess of your asking price i.e. "keep the extra monies and pay the balance to my agent upon pick-up"....yep it's a scam alright.

If I'm correct and you have the patience to let this thing unfold completely, take the money order to your bank. Your bank officials may be able to detect that it's no good right away but if not, deposit it and wait at least 3 weeks. In the past, my bank has informed me that a personal check or money order may take several weeks to clear but they will generally honor these payments in 5-7 days if they don't bounce right away.

If the phony m.o. looks professional and passes the initial smell-test, your bank may honor it in 7-10 business days. But that would be your downfall and when it bounces 1-2 weeks later you are 100% on the hook for making up for the lost funds if you withdraw said funds from your account.

So inform your bank of your suspicions and tell them that you want them to sit on the m.o. deposit for as long as it takes to determine whether the m.o. is genuine or not: 2 weeks, 3 weeks, a month or whatever. Then you'll know for sure.

But in the meantime your would-be buyer will be chomping at the bit and contacting you frantically wondering when he can send his "agent" to pick up your component. You tell him in no uncertain terms that you're not going to release your item to his cohort until the m.o. has cleared your bank, which of course it never will. Scammers really hate that when that happens.

Have some fun with these bastards! 8) And let us know how this thing shakes out.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
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Location: Everett, WA, US
hifi jones,
Yes, I keep waiting for that phrase, "My agent/bookkeeper sent you too much money so could you cash the check and send us the difference via a USPS money order?", etc. And yet I have not received that one. I think, based on professional experiences, that this MO is a forgery or a partially legitimate MO. The crooks get a MO or bank check for a certain amount, "wash" the check of the original amount and insert the amount that they need to pay you. Then the routing numbers and all are legit as is the banking institution but there is a huge gap between the amount of the original check and the one that is sent. The check is cashed and even a more suspicious seller would see that the check is "legit" until, as you say, several weeks pass.
I plan on having some fun with this. I am thinking of replying that no MO has arrived (I have not yet received anything though) and see how many MO's I can collect, or see if I get something "express" delivered, or perhaps send them a reply telling them that my bank believes the instrument for payment is suspicious, and I need some additional information, a phone number, etc. It is like the phone calls that one gets where the caller claims to be from the IRS and that unless you pay immediately an agent will be sent to your home with a warrant for your arrest etc. Oh man, I have a field day with those callers. Anyway, I plan to string this out, see how it progresses, and then post a summary for any and all to see; something like a short history of how this unfolded and a primer so others can avoid this nonsense.
Stay tuned...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Location: Rio Rancho, NM, US
zkidd wrote:
hifi jones,
I plan on having some fun with this. I am thinking of replying that no MO has arrived (I have not yet received anything though) and see how many MO's I can collect, or see if I get something "express" delivered, or perhaps send them a reply telling them that my bank believes the instrument for payment is suspicious, and I need some additional information, a phone number, etc. ....Anyway, I plan to string this out, see how it progresses, and then post a summary for any and all to see; something like a short history of how this unfolded and a primer so others can avoid this nonsense.
Stay tuned...


Awesome! I really like your creativity here. Looking forward to hearing the details of those mo-fo's twisting in the wind.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK, US
This works both ways. I watch the ads here daily, have for a long time. I recently responded to a for sale ad that was a couple months old, asking if the item was still for sale. The response I received was one word, "yes". I have no desire to deal with such a person. The risk here being a free site with minimal feedback or accountability... I at least need to feel like I am dealing with a real person. I feel no obligation to reply to such a response.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:36 pm
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Location: Pasadena, CA, US
taj2 wrote:
This works both ways. I watch the ads here daily, have for a long time. I recently responded to a for sale ad that was a couple months old, asking if the item was still for sale. The response I received was one word, "yes". I have no desire to deal with such a person. The risk here being a free site with minimal feedback or accountability... I at least need to feel like I am dealing with a real person. I feel no obligation to reply to such a response.

Hey, at least you received a response. I replied to a for sale ad the other day, also a few months old, and haven't heard diddly. If I got a yes like you did, at least it'd be a start.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 33
Location: Everett, WA, US
To hifijones,
Please go to the Forums page and under Fraud Warnings see my post titled "Scam Alert - Ema Samson". This is what I have learned so far with my dealings with my "buyer". I have emailed "her" as to the whereabouts of my payment as well as having asked from where these were mailed. No answer as of yet...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
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Location: Everett, WA, US
taj2,
Please go to the Forums section and look up my posting titled "Salesmanship and email replies" and see if any of what I wrote sounds familiar to you...


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