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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:21 am
Posts: 46
Location: santa cruz, CA, US
when I was about 16 I had a turntable and purchased vinyl, when i was 20 i traded all my vinyl :( for cds and portable devices because that is what was popular. 18 months ago when i was 51 I started listening to vinyl again, closely because I am recording some of my friends collection to see if i could answer the title question definitively for myself.. I now have 6 well respected well used phono cartridges (shure denon AT- jico / original etc) and have had over a year to experiment with 50s'60s70s vinyl and some current releases, recording levels, pre amp gain, mm/mc etc etc.

when i listen to one of my digital recordings of my friends vinyl (that is an original release good pressing/mix blah blah) its all he collects)

compared to an industry standard release cd, my recording sounds MUCH MUCH better.

30 years listening to digital exclusively and 18 months listening to vinyl closely (very closely) and vinyl wins for me no question.

and if I get a particularly good (clean LP, clean stylus, cartridge aligned correctly etc) digital recording of vinyl, it captures about 92% maybe 94% of what actually playing the LP gives me, tone and transparency and separation wise,

I've never worried much about 'image' but occasionally i will clearly hear a cowbell outside my car,

at 75 mph !!!! :D

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"Perhaps wiping the grime of 1000 LPs' across the surface of the one I was about to record/play is not the best idea"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:58 am
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Location: nmb, FL, US
i had 10,000 cd's by 1990... in 2017 i have 25... i have had in my system 10k and higher dacs....there fantastic.. no matter..play a 3 dollar copy of dire straits 1st lp on my nottingham analogue hyperspace with a kiseki purple heart cartridge,a raven audio tube amp and a manley phono stage....vinyl is 100x better...in every way...the simplest way:each instrument sounds like its instrument and the voice sounds like a voice...andy sharethemusic@aol.com


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:21 am
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Location: santa cruz, CA, US
sharethemusic wrote:
i had 10,000 cd's by 1990... in 2017 i have 25... i have had in my system 10k and higher dacs....there fantastic.. no matter..play a 3 dollar copy of dire straits 1st lp on my nottingham analogue hyperspace with a kiseki purple heart cartridge,a raven audio tube amp and a manley phono stage....vinyl is 100x better...in every way...the simplest way:each instrument sounds like its instrument and the voice sounds like a voice...andy sharethemusic@aol.com


have you ever tried recording the signal from your lovely analogue rig and listening to the recording in your car :) ?

for $100 you can buy a nice portable device made by any of the pro audio companies (Tascam Roland etc)

Like I said, my recordings capture about 92-94% of what I experience actually playing the vinyl.

and I use $100 portable device to record on

DR-07MKII

its has upgraded DA/AD converters, but the DR05 I had for 12 months was also excellent

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"Perhaps wiping the grime of 1000 LPs' across the surface of the one I was about to record/play is not the best idea"


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:25 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:58 am
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Location: nmb, FL, US
are u saying just record with that device out of the air? not directly intomsystem? and from that,playback in my car and it sounds good? lol sounds reciculous but fun..just confirm..just use that portable device and record from my sysatems stereo speakers from my listening position? andy


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:14 pm
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Location: Portland, OR, US
In all seriousness, when most folks graduate from being audio geeks to music lovers it finally dawns on them that a fair amount of our rich recorded heritage has only been released on compact disc and has never been available on vinyl. And likewise there are many vinyl recordings that have never been made available in digital formats.

This would seem to suggest that ownership of both formats is necessary to access the music that we love. And if one wants to hear that music in fine fidelity, owning both a nice record player and a fine digital rig are probably called for.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Location: nmb, FL, US
i would agree.. i have 5 formats r2r,cassette,cd,blu ray..lol i just turn them on but a few times a year..i have enough vinyl to listen many lifetimes over..its always about the music vinyl is my passion and i enjoy it the most


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Location: nmb, FL, US
i might add i have 300 dat recordings of dead..lol endless


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:59 pm
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Location: Brownsburg, IN, US
Bought my first record in 1968. Forty years later I gave up on vinyl. A couple years ago though, I bought a turntable so I could listen to my records again. After the novelty of hearing my old records wore off, I now listen to digital 99% of the time.

I have no intention of debating which is better, I'll simply listen to the one I prefer.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:18 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:43 pm
Posts: 51
Location: ferndale, WA, US
I played some of my old ECM Label Corea, Burton, Weber and Coryell albums last week and was surprised at how intensely sweet,
delicate and true the instruments come across.
I didn't mind getting up every 18 minutes to flip the thing over
and was relieved to find they still sound as good as the day I bought them 40 years ago.
But with an HDCD or any very high bitrate CD
burned even off an MP3 at least in my system,
the music leaps out of the speakers and races around the house as if powered by crack.
I like both formats but when it comes to the old rock albums I grew up with,
a well-burned CD brings out the power of the music in ways I never heard from the vinyl
maybe it's the 90,000 plays they've had, but still.
The sheer volume of digital music available for inexpensive download balances out the argument.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:52 pm
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Location: Bayonne, NJ, US
For me it's not a simple matter of which format is better or worse. A lot, obviously, depends on gear, and a lot depends on the recording. For world music and many modern recordings (not re-releases), I actually prefer CD recordings through my Border Patrol DAC to vinyl. For 50s-60s jazz and folk, it's vinyl all the way, almost without exception. On other types of music, I evaluate on a case-by-case basis. YMMV, of course, but the bottom line is I don't see why it has to be an either-or proposition.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Location: Surprise, AZ, US
As someone who grew up listening to records beginning in the 1950s (thanks to my Dad who always had a great audio system) I would say my knowledge is pretty good about music reproduction. Anyone who says that records are the only way to hear the best of/in music obviously did not listen to RnR music that was pressed in the 1960s. Today's CDs simply blow my original pressings into the weeds in terms of well - everything. Bass was for the most part nonexistent in many of my records although Columbia did a pretty good job. But compared to classical and jazz records of the day rock was in the garbage bin in terms of fidelity.

And let's not even talk about noisy pressings which was a ubiquitous problem. Quality control was a joke. I have numerous albums from those days that were rarely played and in mint condition and they are unbelievably noisy. Back in the day we didn't know any better and simply accepted it but CDs changed the game - it was a disruptive technology - and showed just how quiet records can be and how great they can sound.

That's not to say records can't sound great - in my system I get my blown frequently how good today's equipment can make records sound. But CDs are no slouch either in my system.

This whole LP, record, album craze is a craze especially by Millennials who grew up listening to CDs and not LPs, albums and records like I did. There is/are a reason/reasons why so many people sold their LPs and bought CDs - fortunately for me I didn't. I think many were fed up with the horrible pressings, warped records and whatever.

BTW I hate the term 'vinyl' - it's LPs, albums or records


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:29 pm
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Location: Chicago, IL, US
Vinyl sounds different from CD, but I wouldn't say that this difference is universally interpreted by listeners as 'better.'

There are several colorations introduced by a phono playback system-

-Phono cartridges have far lower channel separation than CDs. With vinyl you get maybe 30 dB throughout the midband, and MUCH less through the treble. With a CD in a good playback chain you'll get better than 90 dB separation. 30 dB vs 90 dB is 6 orders of magnitude better separation- 1,000,000 times better separation. This is clearly audible.

-Vinyl playback introduces harmonic and intermodulation distortion which is in the 1% to 10% range at all times; this is due, in part, to tracking error inherent in a pivoted arm . (Tangential arms have problems too-) A CD playback chain has much much lower levels of added distortion. This adds a coloration which some listeners interpret as 'richness.' (Various kinds of jitter invariably present in digital playback represents about 0.01% distortion, which is 100~1,000 times lower than the distortion present from vinyl playback.)

-A very good vinyl playback chain will introduce frequency response artifacts on the order of ± 1 dB over the audio band, with less well chosen playback components resulting in higher levels of response compromise. A good CD playback chain will have much lower frequency and power response variation as a function of frequency.

-Vinyl has slight speed variations in playback not present in digital format.

-Vinyl has a signal-to-noise ratio of 40~50 dB. Digital playback is around 90 dB, which is 100,000 to 10,000 times quieter. (Remember dB are logarithmic)


All of these differences make vinyl sound DIFFERENT. It's the listener's brain that makes the decision that these differences add up to BETTER.

Not all listeners will agree.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:21 am
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Location: santa cruz, CA, US
lets be more specific then,

If we take a good pressing of a well known LP released in the 70s and compare it to an industry release CD of the same Album.

and have $1200 to spend on our playback system,

which system would be less fatiguing :D

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"Perhaps wiping the grime of 1000 LPs' across the surface of the one I was about to record/play is not the best idea"


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:59 pm
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Location: Brownsburg, IN, US
HueandEye wrote:
BTW I hate the term 'vinyl' - it's LPs, albums or records


I feel the same way.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:03 am
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Location: Hubley, NS, CA
timrhu wrote:
Bought my first record in 1968. Forty years later I gave up on vinyl. A couple years ago though, I bought a turntable so I could listen to my records again. After the novelty of hearing my old records wore off, I now listen to digital 99% of the time.

I have no intention of debating which is better, I'll simply listen to the one I prefer.



Big +1


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