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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:18 am 
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Location: Geneva, IL, US
I purchased a Pro-ject Debut III / USB turntable some time ago and I wanted to upgrade the turntable so I purchased a new Ortofon 2M Red cartridge. After I put it on the turntable, I noticed some clipping indication through the USB port on my computer. I don't hear the clipping (or I don't think I do) but I would like the output at about 80% to 90% of 0db. The turntable has no attenuation/gain controls.

The stock cartridge has an output of 4mV and the replacement cartridge has an output of 5.5mV. Is the higher output of the 2M Red causing the clipping? Should I look for a replacement cartridge that has a 4mV or less output (as long as its sufficient output for the turntable's pre-amp)? Or do I get an Audio Interface and adjust the attenuation/gain with that device?

I'll await the feedback...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:35 am 
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IMHO, it is the higher output of the Ortofon Red that is causing this. Doesn't that table come with software for the computer? I would imagine there is an input gain control, (maybe called something else, but does the same thing) somewhere within the operations of that software.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:07 pm 
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I purchased the turntable as a demo and it did not have any software. I'll check with Pro-ject and see.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:58 pm 
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I'm of the mind that if you are detecting clipping now, but with your previous 0db level settings from the former cart, you are possibly (not 100% sure) presenting too hot a signal at the first gain stage, that being the built-in preamp. I myself noticed one thing about Ortofon and that is some of their product's output a fairly robust signal. Unless you want to do some modding and install the appropriate resistors in the signal path from the headshell, I would think about locating a lower output cart for your taste/budget. See, once you send a clipped signal past any gain stage to it's final destination, you can't really 'undo' that undesired characteristic. Anyone else is free to interject here and tell me where I'm wrong. Good Luck with your vinyl project, member vanmalt.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:46 am 
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The OP is getting the clipping through the USB output, not the analog outputs. Not sure how the built-in phono preamp handles not only the gain stage to the USB but also the conversion?

A lower voltage cartridge would indeed solve the problem.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:57 am 
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Thanks for your advise.

I have not tried a recording using the analog output. I will try that today and advise. It's a good point, it would point to the cartridge if the output experience/show chipping in Audacity.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Well I made a recording using the line level analog outputs of my turntable. It was massively clipping. The USB/digital output actually was less clipping than the analog. The clipping was barely noticeable but there none the less.

I'm going to take the Ortofon 2M Red off the turntable and put back on the cartridge that came with the turntable, Ortofon OM 5e.

Now to see if the store will refund my money and accept the cartridge.

Thanks for all the input.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:31 pm 
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You are using Audacity as a program for this correct?

Here is what I found:

Remedy this by lowering the input volume on the Mixer Toolbar.

Click the Input meter pull-down menu.
Select Monitor input.
Input audio. ...
Identify that clipping is occurring by observing the Input meter.
To lower the input volume, on the Mixer toolbar, move the slider until clipping no longer occurs.

Try that and see if it works. The Red is a great little cart. Shame to not use it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:41 am 
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I think I tried your suggestion only to find out that the Mixer Toolbar input is defeated.

"The right-hand recording volume slider (by the microphone icon) can often be used to vary the loudness of the recording, but it may not function with all turntables. If it does not, try adjusting the output level on the turntable (often, there is a gain control under the chassis)."

Looks like I'm going have to replace the cartridge...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:57 am 
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Location: santa cruz, CA, US
In my recent (2 years) experience, recording LPs,

TOO MUCH GAIN

can be a problem, I have experimented with 3 TTs, 4 pre amps, and 5 or 6 different cart/stli and combinations of them all.

I came across a product that I have been using a lot and I am very happy with it/them.

It is possible to find cheaper alternatives online but I spent a few extra $$s and got the Rothwells'

They ended all my "clipping" problems

:)


give him a call, he is very good to talk to

I purchased -20db after talking to him *when I thought I wanted -10, he was right, all my pontimeters sit at about 50% all the time, or i can adjust things + or - 30% if the LP I am recording isa little hotter or colder then the last one.

"When used this way, not only is system gain reduced by 10dB, but the signal to noise ratio is improved by 10dB. This pushes the noise floor down enough to create an inky black silent background from which the music can emerge with better resolved fine detail and transparency" -

^ makes for an excellent digital recording also


http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/ ... ators.html

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"Perhaps wiping the grime of 1000 LPs' across the surface of the one I was about to record/play is not the best idea"


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:37 am 
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I have a couple of pairs of the Rothwells. They do indeed work. I didn't recommend them before, because I thought they were $80-$100 a pair. At $49, they would work. I guess it would depend on how many LPs your going to rip and if it's worth the price.

Buy them here:

http://www.britaudio.com/accessories.html

Mike's a really good guy. Does fantastic rewires of tonearms also.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:34 pm 
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I called the store that I purchased both the turntable and the cartridge. He in turn called the manufacturer and spoke to a tech. He learned that its a known problem with the turntable and as a result they (the manufacturer) recommend either an Ortofon OM5e (the original cartridge) or an OM10.

The problem is the higher voltage cartridge over drives the inputs on the pre-amp. Therefore the Rothwells won’t work because, in this instance, the signal is already distorted. The only way is to use a cartridge that has a 4mV or less output.

Thanks for your help and suggestion.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:38 am 
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Location: santa cruz, CA, US
vanmalt wrote:
I called the store that I purchased both the turntable and the cartridge. He in turn called the manufacturer and spoke to a tech. He learned that its a known problem with the turntable and as a result they (the manufacturer) recommend either an Ortofon OM5e (the original cartridge) or an OM10.

The problem is the higher voltage cartridge over drives the inputs on the pre-amp. Therefore the Rothwells won’t work because, in this instance, the signal is already distorted. The only way is to use a cartridge that has a 4mV or less output.

Thanks for your help and suggestion.


You can instal the rothwells BEFORE the pre amp or after the pre amp, they come in 2 kinds, before and after the pre.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:27 am 
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I suppose I could do that but I have to do the modifications to the turntable. You see the pre-amp is built in to the turntable. There is no “Phono out” and “pre-amp in” on the turntable. There is just a pre-amp out.


Last edited by vanmalt on Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:10 am 
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On the table the OP has, the tonearm is wired directly to a built-in phono preamp. Would be a hassle to use the Rothwells with this.

I just looked at the manual and I can't believe it, but you can NOT bypass this built-in preamp! Most of these types of tables have a bypass switch so you can use your own phono stage.

Looks like the only option for the OP is to use a lower output cart, or try a different table.

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