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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:07 am
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Location: Repentigny, QC, CA
I consider what I have to do at home to be n-f listening. That is, 8 feet from me to speakers, 7 feet between speakers.
I enjoy this 1) because I want to listen & have no choice space-wise, and 2) my amps are all low-powered anyway.

But, I am anticipating a larger room one day soon. I wonder sometimes if I will be disappointed? Knowing, for instance, that room & ceiling shape has a lot to do with the resulting sound.

That brings me to the connected subject. In a well-established industry magazine, several of the reviewing contributors have small rooms or sit near to their speakers - eg. One crowds Alexia and 2 large Pass amps plus a single-width rack into the 12 feet of his front wall; another has a room 26 feet long(!) and yet has his seat 9 feet from the chosen loudspeakers.

Is it likely that these reviews are limited in their 'usefulness'? Because alot of people reading will certainly have way more space for the hi-fi set-up. Plus, I'm sure some of the gear being reviewed needs space to breathe (and has not go it).

Come on experts, some wise answers please.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:39 am
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Location: deltona, FL, US
my understanding ( and maybe I am wrong here )...but nearfield listening is a lot closer than 7-8 ft from the speaker, more like 2-4 ft. I have always found that sitting 7-9 ft away from the speakers gives me a more even sound ( ?).....if I sit to far it doesnt sound right and the same thing if I sit to close.

there is nothing set it stone saying that you have to have speakers this far apart and you have to sit at a certain distance......Cardas has the calculations of speaker distances, and you can use that and it gives you a base to start from, but one will eventually end up tweaking it to where it sounds " best" in their room.....and the same thing for where you sit.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:00 pm
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Location: Rio Rancho, NM, US
riley804 wrote:
there is nothing set it stone saying that you have to have speakers this far apart and you have to sit at a certain distance......Cardas has the calculations of speaker distances, and you can use that and it gives you a base to start from, but one will eventually end up tweaking it to where it sounds " best" in their room.....and the same thing for where you sit.


I highly recommend the Cardas speaker set-up calculator. I used it in my 14' x 10' listening room and couldn't be happier although I agree with riley804 that some additional futzing and tweaking was necessary to get the speakers dialed-in perfectly; and we're talking mere inches here.

To the OP: the distance between your speakers should be measured from the center of each woofer to the other and not the outside/inside of one cabinet to the other. If your speakers are 7-feet apart then the distance from the front baffle of each speaker to your listening position i.e. your head & ears should be 7-feet in order to form an equilateral triangle.

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_calculators.php

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:08 am
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Location: burlington, ON, CA
Near field listening is desireable because most listen at far too loud SPL which overpowers the room causing all sorts of problems. Most do not have a very high quality system that throws a sound field at low SPL with all the high, low and mid frequencies. One of the reasons is to get the bass notes and few speaker systems throw all these frequencies out at low volume and so depend on subwoofers which is not as good/cohesive as everything coming from one so called source point. The brain can tell how fine the decay of notes, etc at low SPL in a quiet room with a LOW sound floor system. I call it the elastic band effect. The notes just tickle your ears frequency wise and sound pressure wise. This is so much easier to do near field. Like in Quality Mastering rooms. There is an incredible amount of HiFi in the lower frequencies.

NOTE-most speakers are designed to do something-go loud, excel in midrange, do something. High end speakers throw a sound field out x feet at x Watts at x SPL at x degrees verticle and x degrees horizontal. The listener has to place their ears right at where the sound fields intersect and hope the majority of the sound doesnt go much further than the ears. Loud means bouncing sound waves all over the place causing smearing and distortions and loss of proper decay and over pressurizing the room and so on and on. Easier for near field 2 channel than something like Atmos/11 channels of sound waves because real time DSP is not there yet, but will be.

The way I control the sound is as follows in Windows media player there is a volume slider then there is a second volume slider on the speaker Icon then off my workstation with motherboard embedded optical out to a third amplification in my D/A converter then into my preamp and out to my amps. This allows an incredible level of fine tuning leaving my preamp set and fiddling with the WMP and Sound Icon volume levels. The system is set for the highest quality level it is capable of and WMP is set for least compression, meaning some performances are louder than other performances and this is where one can fine tune to get a suitable leave-it-there SPL.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:07 am
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Location: Repentigny, QC, CA
Thanks chaps, there's some interesting stuff here.
And if you're interested, there's some more ideas/ opinions on CAM under a similar forum header.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:49 am
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Location: Hudson, NH, US
True near field listening ( <= 2 meters) can smooth bass response, but roughen mid/treble response near the crossover point. The later can be worse for
low-order crossover topologies.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:21 am
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Location: oakland, CA, US
Would near-field listening be more desirable with a book shelf sized speaker opposed to a floor standing speaker?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:07 am
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Location: Repentigny, QC, CA
It seems, from what I read here and on CAM, that bookshelf/ standmounts will possibly do a better job in the near-field (2m or less as defined). Studio monitors are usually of this kind.
Why?
A floorstander, unless small like a Neat, will likely need more room to 'breathe'. And sound better when it has. At low volume, will you get the true sonic signature that the speaker is designed to produce? If forced, too much bass from a floorstander will muddy the sound because of interactions with the presumably small room.
BUT, of course at such a distance you cannot really turn the vol. to the max. anyway!

Personally, I do n-f listening. BUT, I'd like to get a suitable room to give my speakers room to shine. Sit back further, turn it up a bit more. Enjoy the immersive experience, trying to approach a live concert replication.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:04 am
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Location: Wayne, NJ, US
I find it funny when people have pre-conceived notions about anything to do with hifi. Their are no rules per say, some basic principles for sure, but no rules.
Speaker location depends on so many variables its almost endless. You put them where they sound the best to you. What is desirable is what your ears like, not mine or anyone else's.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:03 am
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Location: Spring, TX, US
I’ve heard some amazing systems with near field setups.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:08 am
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Location: Green Valley, AZ, US
timztunz wrote:
I’ve heard some amazing systems with near field setups.

I've gone near-field with this desktop system attached to my gaming PC. Presently using a Carver M-500 to power a pair of Klipsch RP-160m's, and I love it. I'm also somewhat of a basshead so I have a sub attached, and at low volume I get every bit of the sound. Lots of other bookshelf speakers I swap in and out of the system, and the Emotiva PT-100 preamp/DAC/tuner is truly a low-priced gem.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:06 pm
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
This is the case in so many domains.

tedkaz wrote:
Speaker location depends on so many variables its almost endless. You put them where they sound the best to you. What is desirable is what your ears like, not mine or anyone else's.


This shows a very egalitarian attitude, one which goes with music in the home. Nobody can tell you what to do in your own home. Nor should.

What it also means, of course, is that ignorance is bliss. If I have never heard what a music reproduction system can do when it is really well adjusted to its room, I can try a lot of different configurations, all of them with different results, and what I finally settle on may be the best — but it is more likely to be the least bad. Hopefully.

And I will have found something I can say I like, but still I won't know what's possible. If I don't know what's possible, can I really say I know what I like ?

I tried a lot of different speaker placements over ten years or so. When I got help from a pal in the audio business, and then read Jim Smith's book Get Better Sound, I gained some knowledge that led to more effective speaker placement in my home.


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