About the scams/scammers. I have lost all of my confidence in buying right now not only from US AudioMart but also from other sites.

Isn't it possible to remedy this situation with some stringent restrictions or conditions for buyers/sellers?

I can't determine if announcements are scams (fraud) or not:

Price on the low side
No pictures of equipment
No seller/buyer history

It seems unfair to the sellers that people like me won't even attempt to get in touch with them for a possible "buy", especialy when we are talking about $1000 to $1500 or more!

If there was a seller/buyer clearing service, I wouldn't mind paying extra for peace of mind. Right now I am very disappointed with this situation. This is a great hobby, and an expensive one at that. But on the other hand, I can't afford the prices of new equipment and sites such as this one would provide the solution, but not if it's unsafe to buy! I'm not about to send my hard earned dollars to Canada, or New York, or California to someone that is dishonest, after all, any amount defrauded over $300.00 is a felony with severe prison time, fines, etc.

So why is it that no one, a trade commission of some sort, or law enforcement, has investigated and attempted to taken control of this thievery?

You make some very good points but "scammers" seem to be a fact of life no matter where you are in the cyber world! It's not even remotely limited to audio! These dipshits are everywhere. And hard to catch!
It most certainly boils down to "Caveat Emptor".

Steven Stone (of AudioReview.com as well as a writer/reviewer for The Absolute Sound) posted via Facebook, just this morning actually, a column he'd written around a year ago. Some sage advice there.

http://audiophilereview.com/cd-dac-digi ... -ebay.html

Thanks for your reply. Steven Stone does provide some good suggestions for all of us to follow. I still feel that some sort of "brokerage" house could be set up to hold the money involved in a transaction, and not forward it until the equipment in question reaches the "broker" and he ascertains that the transactions, the money and the equipment are legit. Then he forwards the money to the seller and the equipment to the buyer. Kind of like a way-station with a fee.

But where does this 'weigh station' end? How many transactions are necessary before additional fees are no longer required? And who should pay these extra fees, buyer or seller? I suspect such fees would have more of a chilling effect on the commerce than the reasons expressed above. I don't know, it's an interesting notion but it doesn't seem all that thought out. Scammers will exploit any opportunity they can find, whether online or not. Online scams only offer the illusion of anonymity and place extra hurdles against getting caught.

A little education on best practices for transaction is all that's needed. Buyers and sellers through a forum such as this should speak to each other, ask questions, and satisfy conditions before exchanging money or goods. Just don't do anything if you don't feel comfortable. Why should everyone suffer the jackboot of an intermediary?

Sounds like that's what a dealer does, like at a real brick and mortar store, but then people complain a dealer cost too much, yadda yadda yadda.

Pay pal is sort of a "clearinghouse" and if you pay by credit card your credit card will refund you your money if you are defrauded.

A proper "dealer" is authorized by the manufacturer and contracted as a local extension of that manufacturer, not merely an intermediary. The dealer will have to meet certain expectations and conditions set by the manufacturer by acting as their agent. I don't think the proposal above takes any of this into consideration. The idea expressed seems merely to be a method for holding up funds exchanges with an added fee. There is no professional relationship with the buyer or seller to uphold.

Sorry, I miss typed I guess, what I was trying to say was that for years people have complained about legit brick and mortar stores or dealers charging a premium for the gear they sell, weither it be new or used, commenting they can get it cheaper "on-line" but after years unethical actions of going to brick and mortar stores and trying out their demos and finding out what they like they then go on-line and buy it cheaper, thus running this places out of business. It's just kills me as ironic that these people who buy on-line now complain about being ripped off or the potential of being ripped of that they are asking for a "clearing house" or some neutral party, of course this neutral part will need to make a living so there will be a charge, what we complain about cost and then we ask for added cost? I don't know you lost me there.

Should be buyer beware, if it's to good to be true then it's not, etc. using uncommon sense should save you in most cases and if you are worried about being ripped off, contact a hifi dealer about his used and demo gear, there are quite a few good dealers out there that deal in used gear. Some even give a warranty or will accept returns if not satisfied.

Saturday audio is Chicago is excellent for used equipment, and then there is recycled audio out in Colorado.

Oh, I am not a dealer, just some one who wishes we had dealers in our city (they have all closed) so I have to buy all my gear on-line or over the phone or travel many, many miles to a dealer.

-- 15 Aug 2012 21:43 --

I have not bought anything off of this website but I have sold and bought many things for multiple years and at thousands of dollars. Even sending money all the way to California, and selling items to Canada.

Never a problem, with probably over 100 transactions.

Use uncommon sense, if it's to good to be true,then it probably is. Use your credit card when you can, it protects you against fraud. Use Postal Money orders, communicate with buyer and seller before sending money to get a feel, and if in doubt don't.

I don't think most people here are out to rip people off, and you should be able to feel out those who are. But remember you get what you pay for. Dont expect perfect "mint" used gear and never pay the premium for this because ultimately unless you see it first it probably is not "mint" to you. It all in the eye of the beholder.

Of course if you fall for the typical email scammer then you probably will be ripped off here too.

We all seem to want the best price, generally speaking. The advent of the internet has added downward pressure on prices of new goods both through brick and mortar retailers and at net-only sales. It has also driven out many of the niche players primarily leaving the big box retailers as the last standing while homogenizing choice. But this is where the niche players are making a comeback. They can use the net-only method as a means of lowering costs to make themselves more attractive to the market. Their difficulty is reaching potential customers in a meaningful way that leads to sales. Helping to make that happen is the myriad reviews published online. In the pre-internet days, one might have read a review or two about a piece of gear before considering a purchase and had a chance to touch it. Now you can usually find many, many reviews and save on sales taxes. That's a powerful motivator.

Unlike new gear, used gear doesn't tend to come from aggregated sources. Any average Joe can sell something he owns and ask any price. It's up to the buyer to educate himself before buying used......just as it always has been. The only difference is the increase in number of potential sellers and the risk that any particular seller is dishonest. eBay has mostly solved this with feedback ratings, an idea that propagates well to forums such as this one. Why? It does a reasonable job and costs nothing. Sure, there's still some risk involved with any used gear purchase so the buyer must still beware. I just doubt that level of concern rises to the need for a permanent and costly intermediary.

Very well put weitrhino.

I have saved quite a bit of money buying used hi-end gear, gear I never would have been able to purchase from a dealer new.

I have a question, the person who started this thread is concerned about being ripped off, and his confidence is shaken, can I Ask what has happened that caused this?

May if you explain what happened some of here can point out somethings to make it go smoother next time.

Because, I know they way it has always been is the buyer always takes the biggest risk because as a seller I will not sell and or ship my item with out having payment in full, cleared by the bank. And if I buy something I don't expect the seller to ship until after he has the money. Except in places where you may meet in person and then it Cash only.

Again I have been doing this for years and have never been ripped off or ripped anyone off.

This thread has been moved to a more appropriate forum since the OP's post was rhetorical and not reporting a specific Fraud.

Hello from Canada..
Guys there are scammers on every single site whether it be Ebay audiogon US audio Mart, craigslist etc...
We have been using Canuck Audio Mart in Canada for many years and the good guys and active members keep pretty close tabs on the suspicious emails, ads etc..
- Canuck Audio is a Solid site but as any site there are bad people out there trying to take our hardly W.A.F approved gear away.. ( possibly some of these scammers are un happy ex wifes that were not so thrilled with our choice of addictions )

Lots of ways to avoid the scammers.
- If your buying a piece ask them simple questions like
- What are you running for cables , pre amp or whatever but if there lingo isnt right or you just have a gut feeling get them to write your email address and date down on piece of paper and put in front of piece in question..

- Ask them for feedback somewhere , audiogon ebay .. Most have some some where and than if they do send them a message through that avenue and get them to reply.. Pretty easy way to confirm they are not faking someone elses feedback.

- Dont accept cashiers check and make sure you have the cash in hand before shipping.
- If shipping and they used Paypal make sure you send it track able cause if they are scammer will say they never received and they automatically win the paypal case. ( yes paypal does suck!

I could think of others but its snowing again lol and need to shovel the driveway before wife wakes up lol Night!!