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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:25 am
Posts: 1
Location: Novato, CA, US
I bought a EAD CD-1000 from "Denny" aka audiolover09@hotmail.com and he sold me a cd player that worked part-time. I sent it back and he said it was damaged by UPS. I filed a claim and UPS denied the claim because there was no damage. I paid by certified check, so now I am out of my money. DO NOT BUY FROM THIS SCAMMER!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:01 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Grand Rapids, MI, US
I bought from Denny Tang in Summer 2014. The CAL Aria CD player that I purchased was received well packaged and worked perfectly. I still use it every day. So my experience with Denny Tang was a good one. Just sayin'


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:57 am
Posts: 160
Location: Oakley, CA, US
MarinJim wrote:
I bought a EAD CD-1000 from "Denny" aka audiolover09@hotmail.com and he sold me a cd player that worked part-time. I sent it back and he said it was damaged by UPS. I filed a claim and UPS denied the claim because there was no damage. I paid by certified check, so now I am out of my money. DO NOT BUY FROM THIS SCAMMER!


What PROOF do you have that the CD player was "INTERMITTANT," or defective, prior to shipping it to you?

Despite the best packing, you are aware, aren't you, (and everyone else here) that you are buying delicate electronics, and that the act of shipping alone, can cause electronics, or the mechanics thereof, to become faulty? This is the EXACT reason why we pack electronics with "soft" materials when we ship; boxes are thrown around in the shipping process. If shippers were careful, and using "kid gloves," we'd just put the item into a box without any padding whatsoever. You know this to be true.

So, tell us about your PROOF that your seller had "scienter" (prior knowledge) that the unit was defective. Unless you can prove scienter, all ties go to the seller, and it is inherently known that electronics are subject to the types of damage you describe - - unless, perhaps, you're willing to personally pick up the item; i.e., because you wanted the CD player shipped, you were willing to accept the risk of damage in the absence of something more sinister that YOU CAN PROVE.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:04 am 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 8:38 am
Posts: 5
Location: Alameda, CA, US
To both buyer and seller... You both need to BEWARE of UPS. Those people THROW boxes. Whenever you ship electronics, pack it such that it can comfortably survive an eight foot drop to a concrete floor. That means either plenty of bubble wrap and/or double boxing.

One more thing. If you're going to use just one box with bubble wrap, don't pack it tight. Allow a bit of slop in there, other wise the shock of being hit is more closely transferred to the item inside.

I used to ship hand-blown scientific glassware, which is much more fragile than electronics, so I have experience in this area.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:57 am
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Location: Oakley, CA, US
rustybutt wrote:
To both buyer and seller... You both need to BEWARE of UPS. Those people THROW boxes.


This is so true, and it's been done for decades. Back in the early 1970's, I worked for an electronics company that did government contract work. We packed our end products pursuant to MIL-SPEC and, despite that, I serupticiously watched the UPS driver "pitch" about 20 boxes of "our" hard work into his truck. I needed the proof because of complaints of broken parts. Well, I caught that S.O.B. and damn near came to blows! Suffice it to say, I informed my boss, and within a few days, the government inspector, the UPS manager, the original S.O.B. driver, myself, and my boss had a little meeting about it. Suffice it to say, by the time the meeting was over, the driver had no job. Oh, and the epilog to this story was that we opened the boxes at the meeting and, wouldn't you know it, some of the parts were, in fact, broken despite the MIL-SPEC packing. I mean, the guy thought he was "Babe Ruth" and each piece had to be reinspected at OUR expense and repaired. The cost was enormous.

In short, unless you're shipping something unbreakable, try not to use UPS because the "throwing" goes on to this day. I have never seen it happen with Fed-Ex. I don't know about the USPS because they do everything in "hiding."

I hate shipping my things when I sell because my items are wonderful and, until the buyer tells me that receipt was made, I worry. I'm not kidding. Believe me, I'm not looking forward to shipping my JBL 120Ti speakers!

Bestsound


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:45 am
Posts: 1
Location: Billerica, MA, US
.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:34 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Santa Ana, CA, US
I have comments about this post and about shipping techniques . . .

It drives me crazy that Audio Mart allows members to post complaints like this in the forums section for all to see. Complaints should be taken up with admin and not in any other place. Just because some bloke buyer has a complaint does not mean the complaint is legitimate and it should be sorted out by admin. Now (or long ago when this was posted) this poor fellow, Denny, has a seemingly bad rap that he may not have earned. Did he “guarantee” the component upon the transaction? Who told the buyer he could “send it back?”

I realize the complaint could also be legitimate, but that is why it should be sorted out behind the scenes and not publicly. It turns into a he-said/she-said situation. In addition to that the heading of this post has the guys email address posted—not his member username. Why would you post his email here??? It is no ones’ business what my email address is unless I have dealings or conversations with you specifically. I certainly don’t want some persnickety bloke posting it here for all to see unnecessarily.

I am happy to see some folks speak up in defense of the seller. One fellow member explains he had a positive transaction with the seller, and another has highlighted the tremendous RISK involved with shipping anything. (THAT IS WHY SO MANY AUDIOPHILES ARE SO ANAL RETENTIVE ABOUT ACQUIRING THE ORIGINAL BOX AND PACKING MATERIALS!).

As for shipping, I am blown away by at least one of these posts that says you should “allow a bit of slop in there.” That’s the single worst piece of advice I have ever seen given out so steadfastly. There should be no “slop” in the box whatsoever. You do not want the component bouncing around inside the shipping container. THERE IS NOT A SINGLE MANUFACTURER THAT LEAVES “SLOP” INSIDE THERE SHIPPING/COMPONENT BOXES, AND MANUFACTURERS SPEND TIME AND MONEY TO ENGINEER EXACT FIT STYROFOAM PIECES FOR THEIR ELECTRONICS. There is no slop in any new component box that you have ever purchased! A manufacturer’s box will have airspace within the box, but it does not allow the component to shift about within the box. The airspace is just one more layer of protection for the electronics. The Styrofoam suspends the component in “midair” within the center of the box, but DOES NOT ALLOW ANY “SLOP” SO THAT THE COMPONENT CAN SHIFT ABOUT. Since you and I don’t have custom designed Styrofoam pieces that exactly fit the box and component (effectively coupling them together as one unit), we have to fill the entire box with packing materials so the component cannot shift inside.

Often, I also see that peanuts get a bad rap from unhappy buyers, but truthfully peanuts are a great shipping product that works well. The reason they don’t work is that people don’t use enough of them. They leave “slop” in the box and then the peanuts are ineffective. The box must be filled and “packed snuggly” with peanuts 100%. I have even seen the UPS store do this incorrectly and use too few peanuts in a packed box.

If you are engineering your own packaging, the best packing is a combination of Styrofoam (stiff and firm) and cellular foam (soft like your mattress foam). And it is imperative that you leave no empty space (slop) that allows the component to bounce around inside the box. That’s the ultimate packing sin!!

Double boxing is also very good especially if you “pad” the inner box to protect it while inside the outer box. An original manufacturer’s box inside a second outer box is very good.

To be honest with you, boxing and packing should be more expensive than it typically is because audiophiles should invest more money and TIME in boxing than they currently do. (Again, this is why we all love to get original manufacturers box and packing!). When you have them KEEP YOUR BOXES!!!

Finally, I worked a summer with UPS in my late teens. They do literally THROW your boxes. It's not disrespectful, it's just that they have a million boxes a night to get from point A to point Z and all points in between. They have no respect whatsoever for your precious product that is marked "fragile." If you really want your shipments "hand carried" there are companies that will do that, but it'll cost you a heck of a lot more than $60 coast-to-coast. If you properly package your shipments, they will survive UPS (and FedEx and USPS) ninety-nine times out of one hundred.

Anyways, that’s my two cents on this.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Portland, OR, US
Best Sound, that would be completely incorrect. All ties do not go to the seller.

It is incumbent on the seller to get the item to the buyer in the condition described in the ad. After all, it is the buyer that is responsible for packing the goods, and generally chosen the shipper as well. The buyer, who has paid before ever having seen the item, cannot vet the packing or the functionality of the item prior to receipt. Successfully getting the item there is completely on the seller. PayPal, credit cards, eBay and Audiogon all spell this out quite clearly.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:54 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Indianapolis, IN, US
Re: viridian2
Don't you mean: "After all, it is the seller that is responsible for packing the goods." :?:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am
Posts: 36
Location: Everett, WA, US
This is in reply about shipping and NOT about individual sellers, etc. I agree that before people are mentioned in a negative light the administrators at USAM should be involved and they, and they alone decide who is what. On to shipping:
I have found FedEx to be much kinder to things electronic as opposed to the gorillas in brown. And yes to the person who posted about about stiff styrofoam. Go to Lowe's or Home Depot and get sheets of styrofoam that are used for insulating. Those sheets are excellent for reinforcing boxes plus are great for absorbing shock. I learned about doing those from a speaker manufacturer and have used that idea now for years. As a result, I even have received feedback from a buyer who said I must have a Ph.D in shipping and packing. While shipping and packing is expensive, just how expensive is it to deal with a claim, an upset buyer, the aggravation of getting something repaired (if that is even possible) and emails back and forth between seller, buyer, shipper, etc? Do yourself a favor and at least double box, packed tightly (I do not think that "slop" in a box is a good idea) and insulate against shock, drops, and punctures.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Portland, OR, US
Dreaming, absolutely, thank you for the correction. It is the seller that packs the goods. Must've had my hand on the tube amp again, LOL.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:30 pm 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN, US
no problem viridian, shows do I pay attention. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:00 am
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Location: Levittown, NY, US
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sing_to_me wrote:
I have comments about this post and about shipping techniques . . .

It drives me crazy that Audio Mart allows members to post complaints like this in the forums section for all to see. Complaints should be taken up with admin and not in any other place. Just because some bloke buyer has a complaint does not mean the complaint is legitimate and it should be sorted out by admin. Now (or long ago when this was posted) this poor fellow, Denny, has a seemingly bad rap that he may not have earned. Did he “guarantee” the component upon the transaction? Who told the buyer he could “send it back?”

I realize the complaint could also be legitimate, but that is why it should be sorted out behind the scenes and not publicly. It turns into a he-said/she-said situation. In addition to that the heading of this post has the guys email address posted—not his member username. Why would you post his email here??? It is no ones’ business what my email address is unless I have dealings or conversations with you specifically. I certainly don’t want some persnickety bloke posting it here for all to see unnecessarily.

I am happy to see some folks speak up in defense of the seller. One fellow member explains he had a positive transaction with the seller, and another has highlighted the tremendous RISK involved with shipping anything. (THAT IS WHY SO MANY AUDIOPHILES ARE SO ANAL RETENTIVE ABOUT ACQUIRING THE ORIGINAL BOX AND PACKING MATERIALS!).

As for shipping, I am blown away by at least one of these posts that says you should “allow a bit of slop in there.” That’s the single worst piece of advice I have ever seen given out so steadfastly. There should be no “slop” in the box whatsoever. You do not want the component bouncing around inside the shipping container. THERE IS NOT A SINGLE MANUFACTURER THAT LEAVES “SLOP” INSIDE THERE SHIPPING/COMPONENT BOXES, AND MANUFACTURERS SPEND TIME AND MONEY TO ENGINEER EXACT FIT STYROFOAM PIECES FOR THEIR ELECTRONICS. There is no slop in any new component box that you have ever purchased! A manufacturer’s box will have airspace within the box, but it does not allow the component to shift about within the box. The airspace is just one more layer of protection for the electronics. The Styrofoam suspends the component in “midair” within the center of the box, but DOES NOT ALLOW ANY “SLOP” SO THAT THE COMPONENT CAN SHIFT ABOUT. Since you and I don’t have custom designed Styrofoam pieces that exactly fit the box and component (effectively coupling them together as one unit), we have to fill the entire box with packing materials so the component cannot shift inside.

Often, I also see that peanuts get a bad rap from unhappy buyers, but truthfully peanuts are a great shipping product that works well. The reason they don’t work is that people don’t use enough of them. They leave “slop” in the box and then the peanuts are ineffective. The box must be filled and “packed snuggly” with peanuts 100%. I have even seen the UPS store do this incorrectly and use too few peanuts in a packed box.

If you are engineering your own packaging, the best packing is a combination of Styrofoam (stiff and firm) and cellular foam (soft like your mattress foam). And it is imperative that you leave no empty space (slop) that allows the component to bounce around inside the box. That’s the ultimate packing sin!!

Double boxing is also very good especially if you “pad” the inner box to protect it while inside the outer box. An original manufacturer’s box inside a second outer box is very good.

To be honest with you, boxing and packing should be more expensive than it typically is because audiophiles should invest more money and TIME in boxing than they currently do. (Again, this is why we all love to get original manufacturers box and packing!). When you have them KEEP YOUR BOXES!!!

Finally, I worked a summer with UPS in my late teens. They do literally THROW your boxes. It's not disrespectful, it's just that they have a million boxes a night to get from point A to point Z and all points in between. They have no respect whatsoever for your precious product that is marked "fragile." If you really want your shipments "hand carried" there are companies that will do that, but it'll cost you a heck of a lot more than $60 coast-to-coast. If you properly package your shipments, they will survive UPS (and FedEx and USPS) ninety-nine times out of one hundred.

Anyways, that’s my two cents on this.


This is the absolute best post regarding this subject, you are RIGHT on the money with everything you have said here. I just sold a Pioneer SD 1000 scope on ebay heading to Great Britain via Priority Mail International. Her are some pics of my packing that I haven't finished yet. The bubble wrapped/air packed unit will be inside that nearly triple walled clamshell which you see has air packs fitted inside as well. And that will be put inside of a double walled outer carton that is used to ship auto parts. These are one of the most delicate pieces of gear to ship with that scope tube, so you have to go all out with it. Glad to see there are some people out there who take the time and effort to get these pieces safely to their new homes.


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