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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:32 pm 
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LDOVR wrote:
Attachment:
dxpwr-16-800.jpg
Some more details

Single Board DC/DC PSU 0-15V 1.5A(Complete Unit) - 95$
Heatsink Enclosure 30x80x60mm (Takachi - Japan)
LT30451A5IO Board
Copper Heatbridge 5x10x40mm

Dual Board(serial connection, soldered) DC/DC PSU 0-15V 2x1.5A(Complete Unit) - 135$
Heatsink Enclosure 30x80x60mm (Takachi - Japan)
LT30451A5IO Board
LT30451A5 board
2 x Copper Heatbridge 5x10x40mm

Dual Board(serial connection, connectorized) DC/DC PSU 0-15V 2x1.5A(Complete Unit) - 145$
Heatsink Enclosure 30x80x60mm (Takachi - Japan)
LT30451A5IO Board
LT30451A5 board
2 x Copper Heatbridge 5x10x40mm
Set of PIN connectors for easy solderless interconnection

Dual Board(Parallel connection, soldered) DC/DC PSU 0-15V 3A(Complete Unit) - 135$
Heatsink Enclosure 30x80x60mm (Takachi - Japan)
LT30451A5IO Board
LT30451A5 board
2 x Copper Heatbridge 5x10x40mm
Hi Alexey, Very sweet looking! Love that heatsink case.

Would love to see you also do an OSCON capped adjustable voltage 1.5A. With that nice case - it'd be another winner.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:04 am 
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Interesting post for another CA thread on the Matrix SPDIF-2 vs the SOtM dx-usbHD+sCLKex

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jean-michel6
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Posted Thursday at 12:06 AM
On 7/3/2018 at 6:05 PM, cat6man said:
I've visited this thread on and off over its life and I'm back for another visit.
I have a dx-usb HD with sCLK-2224 (formerly superclock upgrade) which I used for a few years, then put on the shelf while I experimented with microRendu and then ultraRendu, with LPS1 and LPS1.2 power supplies.

I recently went back to using the dx-usb HD to see how my totalDAC sounded with aes/ebu, since it had been a while since I used that mode (previously I used dx-usbHD with the sotm battery supply).
My current setup is ultraRendu (w/ LPS1.2 power) feeding usb into dx-usbHD (w/LPS1 power), aes/ebu into totaldac.
The sound is very very good and I plan to compare it to the ultraRendu feeding the dac via usb.
I also want to try swapping the LPS1 and LPS1.2, putting the LPS1.2 on the dx-usbHD feeding the DAC.
I see now, and wasn't paying sufficient attention earlier, that the newer EX clock fits in the dx-usbHD and is a good upgrade even from the sCLK-2224. How many folks out there have a sotm unit withe the EX clock? Anyone using the dx-usbHD with sCLK-13224EX clock?

Anyone doing so with aes/ebu output? I'd appreciate any feedback or suggestions. I see that Romaz had a unit upgraded and was using, I believe, spdif output. Anyone else with experience here?
I've emailed sotm asking about an upgrade for my dx-usbHD unit, but have yet to get a response.
I do see that the EX clock is an option that can be chosen at checkout if buying a new dx-usbHD unit and the sCLK-13224EX clock costs $250 more than the sCLK-2224 (which I currently have).
Cheers


I do had a dx-USB HD with sCLK 2224 and I did upgraded it to sCLKex.
It is now powered by an lps 1.2
My dealer here in france bought back from me at half cost the sCLk224 board and i did purchase the sCLKex.

I am using it to input into AES-EBU in an AMR dp 777 se dac.

I did got some SQ improvement going from sCLK 2224 to sCLKex but it is not very big.

In my opinion it is a worthwhile investment if you plan to use the two additional clock output of the sCLKex and adding later a 10mhz ref clock which I have not done yet.
One other route you may try.

I did try in my system the new matrix USB-Spdif converter.

It is better than the sotm with sCLKex board and cost is small .... cheaper than sCLK ex
So here he has compared the $379 Matrix SPDIF-2 to the $1200 SOtM dx-usbHD+sCLKex and liked the Matrix better.

I had the Matrix for an extended period of time and liked it to - but even after burnin it lacked the tonal richness of the
iDef>Mercury3.0>iPur2>Singxer F-1 combo. So I sold it. Before I switched from the USPCB A>B Adapter to the iFi Mercury 3.0 the Matrix held a slight detail edge - after the switch the F-1 had greater detail and a better tonal signature.

After reading this report I'm glad to have not spent the $1200 for the SOtM. I could never find any specs on the clock in the sCLKex, but talking to a few friends and looking at photos of the board it appears to be a plain XO with some type of PLL circuit added (similar to Focusrites Jet-PLL?)

The SQ leap and I mean a Superman leap in SQ with the F-1combo powered by PoE DC 2.0 is just in a whole other league.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:30 am 
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They should be well known for making "busted" stuff like this, clock cables are meant to be kept as short as possible (degradation KILLS and it's pointless to pay for an expensive clock) but they're just trying to get away with doing whatever they want

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=284&tab=comments#comment-793819
Quote:
Second, I bought a tx-USB ultra the other day as the last piece of the puzzle. I opened it to change the voltage to 12V. I noticed that the clock cable that goes from the input connector (inside of the BNC) to the board is curled up. I measured it and it is 40cm. By looking at it, it looks like more industrial than something in the league of high-end clock cables. I wonder how much our effort (both keeping short lengths and high quality) matters in this case when the last 40cm is something like that.

Then again, given that SOtM is as good as it is (both products and as a company), my only conclusion is that they don't think that this matters that much. But why do they sell the first 1m for $700? As you can see, I am a little confused here.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=147&tab=comments#comment-722848
Quote:
As a further example of how important this is, I have been testing clock cables of various price points and length. Using various inexpensive DigiKey clock cables from the same manufacturer of various lengths, as you go from 20 to 40 cm in cable length, the SQ degradation is clearly audible. This is why I had to send my gear back to SOtM. Because they didn't have the really short clock cables in stock, they ended up using much longer clock cables in my build which I ultimately deemed as unacceptable.

Someone replaced the clock inside an ordinary switch with this $55 OCXO

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/connor-winfield/OH4610LF-025.0M/CW899-ND/5641634

That modified switch turned out to be as good as $700 SOtM sCLK-EX + €700 Habst clock cable + $3,595 Mutec REF 10 accordingly to romaz

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-78#post-14117902
Quote:
This OCXO switch from The Linear Solution is at least as good as my DLink switch and with further burn-in, it may turn out to be convincingly better. At the present time, my DLink switch has a touch more smoothness and a touch less glare but music streamed through the OCXO switch definitely has more of a "you are there" presence and this switch seems to still be improving. If I can get this slight harshness to go away, my preference is definitely for The Linear Solution OCXO switch.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-79#post-14120317
Quote:
As always, it's how these parts are implemented that can make a bigger difference and combined with very short signal paths (i.e. no convoluted signal paths or long clock cables were necessary), the quality of the clock signal actually seen by the system board is possibly higher than the quality of the clock signal seen by components such as a tX-USBultra or sMS-200ultra even though they use superior clocks.

One of the things I learned about the REF10 is that Mutec's published phase noise measurements were taken from the BNC output and not from the clock itself and so comparing the phase noise plots of REF10 to another external master clock may not be a true apples to apples comparison and this highlights my point. I predict that by the time the clock signal goes through whatever length clock cable you use to connect the REF10 to something like the sCLK-EX board in my tX-USBultra and by the time that clock signal reaches the USB hub in my tX-USBultra, that signal may have become significantly degraded and so this is the potential benefit of physically placing a good clock in the same location as the old clock.

BTW, we could also replace the 25MHz clocks inside USB 3.0 hubs and then power that separately with an additional LT3045:

http://goughlui.com/2013/04/10/quick-review-cheap-unbranded-4-port-usb-3-0-hub-from-ebay/

Image

https://acroname.com/blog/industrial-usb-hub-teardown-esd-robustness

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:14 am 
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Great post! I've used SOtM SATA and fan filters before and actually found the far cheaper Fidelity ones better. So I've a natural skepticism about their very expensive USB gear (didn't they just take the Intona board and put it in a prettier case and jack up the price?).

And the points made out on clock cable length are so true - this has been know for a very long time in Pro-Audio circles and the controversy around atomic clocks. The measured phase noise at the BNC is not the same as at the cable endpoint. With these ultra sensitive femto clocks - the speed of light becomes a factor in clock timing!

Quote:
So, just how short is a femtosecond? One way to think of it, Kaertner says, is in terms of how far light can move in a given amount of time. Light travels about 300,000 kilometers (or 186,000 miles) in one second. That means it goes about 30 centimeters — about one foot — in one nanosecond. In one femtosecond, light travels just 300 nanometers — about the size of the biggest particle that can pass through a HEPA filter, and just slightly larger than the smallest bacteria.

Another way of thinking about the length of a femtosecond is this: One femtosecond is to one second as one second is to about 32 million years.
http://news.mit.edu/2012/explained-femt ... ttoseconds

So a cable several inches long has huge time delay issues when femto second timing is involved.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... ster-clock
Quote:
Conclusions
Overall, it should be clear from these tests that employing an external master clock cannot and will not improve the sound quality of a digital audio system. It might change it, and subjectively that change might be preferred, but it won't change things for the better in any technical sense. A‑D conversion performance will not improve: the best that can be hoped for is that the A‑D conversion won't become significantly degraded. In most cases, the technical performance will actually become worse, albeit only marginally so.


Quote:
Interface-induced Jitter
Regardless of how good your clock source, the cable you use to connect clocks and digital audio signals can affect the clocking accuracy quite dramatically. Word clock signals are conveyed as a simple square wave running at the sample rate, and are always conveyed using a matched‑impedance interface designed specifically to convey high‑frequency signals. In fact, it's the same basic interface as is used for conveying video signals, with 75Ω terminations at each end and cables with a characteristic impedance of 75Ω. As a result, the signal that falls out at the far end of the clock cable is generally pretty similar to what went in, and although the inherent cable capacitance will tend to round off the vertical edges slightly, every clock transition will be consistent, which is vitally important...


Back to the SOtM sCLK-EX clock board
https://www.audiostream.com/content/sot ... egenerator
I found this review - and others like - they all claim 'Ultra low phase noise custom designed oscillation circuit'
But never any specs or details.

I mean these Chinese TXCO clock makers claim the same - but when you look at the phase noise numbers the Crytek, NDK and Accusilicon (Matrix) blow them away.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-0000-MHz-TC ... 8498!US!-1


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:08 am 
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Tubelover2 wrote:

I had the Matrix for an extended period of time and liked it to - but even after burnin it lacked the tonal richness of the
iDef>Mercury3.0>iPur2>Singxer F-1 combo. So I sold it. Before I switched from the USPCB A>B Adapter to the iFi Mercury 3.0 the Matrix held a slight detail edge - after the switch the F-1 had greater detail and a better tonal signature.

After reading this report I'm glad to have not spent the $1200 for the SOtM. I could never find any specs on the clock in the sCLKex, but talking to a few friends and looking at photos of the board it appears to be a plain XO with some type of PLL circuit added (similar to Focusrites Jet-PLL?)

The SQ leap and I mean a Superman leap in SQ with the F-1combo powered by PoE DC 2.0 is just in a whole other league.

Cheers!


Having bought an Audionote 2.1 upgraded to signature level I had a friend over this afternoon, with his 2.1, plus AN Pallas spdif (£5k) and the Pallas Black (£3k), and a triple shielded spdif used in studios (£15); all three 1.5 metres.

As a part of the fun I also redid the Matrix vs SingXer with all the system adjustments I have done. Result: my friend said, 'The Matrix is HiFi, the SingXer is music'.

In terms of the DACs: My AN2.1 > Friends 2.1 > Border Patrol SE.

The spdif cables were interesting. Anything more the £100 is VERY unlikely to see my system, both the AN spdif did interesting things that it was hard to ignore, interesting to know what is possible! The studio cable and my ferrited Mark Grant cable were both very good in different ways, I have kept the Studio cable to play with for a few weeks. Unfortunately the chap who makes them is semi-retired and likes to stick to trade.

Lastly, I also demoed the PoE, Ibra vs Ugreen flt 2M. Whilst I prefer the latter in my digital back end in the front the Ibra wins - subtle but consistent.


Alexey,

Thanks for the post.

M


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:45 am 
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Mr Underhill wrote:
Having bought an Audionote 2.1 upgraded to signature level I had a friend over this afternoon, with his 2.1, plus AN Pallas spdif (£5k) and the Pallas Black (£3k), and a triple shielded spdif used in studios (£15); all three 1.5 metres.

As a part of the fun I also redid the Matrix vs SingXer with all the system adjustments I have done. Result: my friend said, 'The Matrix is HiFi, the SingXer is music'.

In terms of the DACs: My AN2.1 > Friends 2.1 > Border Patrol SE.

The spdif cables were interesting. Anything more the £100 is VERY unlikely to see my system, both the AN spdif did interesting things that it was hard to ignore, interesting to know what is possible! The studio cable and my ferrited Mark Grant cable were both very good in different ways, I have kept the Studio cable to play with for a few weeks. Unfortunately the chap who makes them is semi-retired and likes to stick to trade.

Lastly, I also demoed the PoE, Ibra vs Ugreen flt 2M. Whilst I prefer the latter in my digital back end in the front the Ibra wins - subtle but consistent.


Alexey,

Thanks for the post.

M
You did it! Finally the AN 2.1! I know you have been thinking/lusting for this along time. Now you have to tube roll those 6922's! :lol:
That a very deep rabit hole...what did it come with? I can point to this 17 top 6922 tubes shootout I did...oh my beloved 6N23P 1975 Reflecktor HG's have almost become extinct...now commanding $590/pr! :twisted:
6922 Tube Review - 17 Top 6922 6N23P E88CC CCa 7308 E188CC tubes
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6922-tu ... es.761078/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-Reflekto ... SwcOVbFROx

The F-1 ROCKS! :mrgreen:

On the SPDIF cable rolling - that is very interesting. I've been through too many top SPDIF cables to mention - even some uber expensive ones like the Nordost Valhalla BNC's. In the end my game over cable is the Synergistic Research Element Copper/Galileo MPC.
It is simply magic in the way it presents space and transparency. It's also a very neutral cable. A big step up over my previous ref- the Audio Sensibilities Statement Silver 1.5M.

You have to try at least a AQ Forest in your PoE DC chain, better yet the Cinnamon.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:49 am 
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Yep. I did have reservations but now very glad a bit the bullet.

I need to open her up and check the valves, photos here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audionote-DAC2-1x-upgraded-copper-foils-and-black-gate-caps/253663145652?hash=item3b0f806eb4:g:cX4AAOSwSg5bEZ12

I will check your valve thread, thx.

Those Audionote cables are stupidly expensive, but they do sound the best of any spdif i have had in my system. The cheaper cables are both good and each capture some of the goodness of the ANs. The cable is extruded solid silver plated in Palladium, I think; but, there are other other tweaks going on in there apparently.

My friend was very taken with the advances in sound quality wrought by PoE and the ferrites. As he said, my system has now got to a level that to really improve it would take a serious amount of money, and would be difficult as things are now so well balanced.

I know I will give the cat7 AQ cables a go for PoE.

Cheers,

M


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:31 am 
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Mr Underhill wrote:
Yep. I did have reservations but now very glad a bit the bullet.

I need to open her up and check the valves, photos here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audionote-DAC2-1x-upgraded-copper-foils-and-black-gate-caps/253663145652?hash=item3b0f806eb4:g:cX4AAOSwSg5bEZ12

I will check your valve thread, thx.

Those Audionote cables are stupidly expensive, but they do sound the best of any spdif i have had in my system. The cheaper cables are both good and each capture some of the goodness of the ANs. The cable is extruded solid silver plated in Palladium, I think; but, there are other other tweaks going on in there apparently.

My friend was very taken with the advances in sound quality wrought by PoE and the ferrites. As he said, my system has now got to a level that to really improve it would take a serious amount of money, and would be difficult as things are now so well balanced.

I know I will give the cat7 AQ cables a go for PoE.

Cheers,

M
Hi M,
Looked at the photos but couldn't make out the 6922 brand. In my DAC and Amp, which take the 6992 and equivalents the different tubes made a pretty significant difference in SQ. Aside from my HG ruskies - I'd recommend the Siemens CCa's from the early '60s (the gray shields). The 6N23P is a direct substitute - but you may be able to use a wider choice of tubes. I'd check with AN. The 6922 family of direct replacements are: 6DJ8, ECC88, E88CC, E188CC, CCa, 6N23P, 7308, CV2492, CV2493. You can use the PCC88/7DJ8 - which was designed for 7V operation but can work at 6V - I never much cared for them - aside from the legendary Stuttgart Lorenz (NOT the SEL's!), these are some really sweet tubes, but very expensive.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Lorenz-Stut ... SwwKNbJzF6

Great to hear the PoE DC is giving you good results!

Cheers


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:21 am 
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New ASR test of the Yggy with the GEN5 and Analog 2 boards. Results? Not Good!
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/in ... -dac.3607/
Attachment:
Schiit Yggdrasil DAC Dashboard Measurement.png
Schiit Yggdrasil DAC Dashboard Measurement.png [ 116.75 KiB | Viewed 783 times ]

Only 86dB of headroom

Compared to this Topping $500 DAC with 107dB
Attachment:
Topping DX7s DAC Dashboard Measurement.png
Topping DX7s DAC Dashboard Measurement.png [ 97.29 KiB | Viewed 783 times ]

:roll:

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Tubelover2 wrote:
Great review of the iFi AC Purifier - I really like mine.
Quote:
The iPurifier essentially trades textures and air for a much smoother and fuller sound
I like mine enough to keep it for now, but removing it reminds me how much I love the air and HF detail without the AC Pur. I think a great system should do more than just sound better than a good system, it should sound different. That sense of air is hard to achieve, and when present along with dynamics, the system gets closer to a live sound that many systems just don't have.

I started with the AC Pur on the main outlet, but eventually moved it to the Art Audio PB4X4Pro I recently bought which now powers my mac mini, 2 DC-30W, and the RefLink. Putting it there let me split the difference WRT to air and the clarity in the mids - bass that the AC Pur creates. The 4Pro is now fed by the Furutech wall outlet that also supplies the Monster power which still has the power amp and DAC.

I like the Art Audio PB4X4Pro, and agree that's it's a killer value. It has a nice rich, full sound and definitely sounds better than outlet banks 3-5 on the Monster power. It seems to do a good job of knocking down the digital hash noise. 2 little nits, the rear light has no power switch and plugging it in when needed is more trouble than using a flashlight. The next models up have that switch but also come with electronic meters that might add noise. The other is the power cord is a little too long, too small and non-detachable. I think I lose a bit of dynamics and air as a result.

Rob, would you think there's enough room inside 4Pro for an IEC socket? I also wanted to replace the IEC on the DC-30W since they seem cheap and more loose that any I've used before. And what do you do with all the extra AC cord slack with 3 of these?

I'm happy to see you going back to mundorf silver/gold for the last 6 inches. I knew you liked it initially and I guess just tried to find cheaper options? Then went to stranded silver and stranded silver plated copper and I was getting confused. I'd expect it's easier to get a direct soldered connection to LD3045 boards to hold if it's made with solid core wire that's bent around the board. I'm always interested in reducing plug in connections if possible, but I see the genius in your cable rolling configuration too.

A few thoughts about the last 6 inches since we know they're so very important. If cable routing and strain relief are good, why can't it be shorter? We know it's just DC but has rapidly changing current. Is the larger size silver-gold wire (1.5mm?) good enough or should we mix wire sizes for spread spectrum approach ala AQ? This will likely have EQ effects as well so may be system dependent, but I'm a treble whore so I'm always worried about losing that HF detail. If the gauges are mixed then we lose the pure symmetry of star-quad, but how important is that really in this application with good spacing and possibly mu-metal to avoid EMI? For example, a cable made of 6 wires 2ea: 1.5mm, 1mm, and 0.5mm that's twisted together would still have very low inductance.

That wire can be purchased without insulation. What do you think of loose tube teflon to further reduce dielectric interaction and space the shield further out? The individual wires could still be wound pretty tightly around each other, and the loose tube would provide spacing on the outer sides. Even though these cables don't carry a lot of current, they may be very sensitive to metal near them because it could affect the EM field they generate.

Did you see that AQ sells bulk cat cable that's 5% silver? If everything else is the same, then we'd have another option that's between Cinnamon and Vodka. The 2 meaningful reviews of vodka on Amazon were positive. One liked it a little better than Cin, and the other a little more so.

Good work with the EMI sniffer. Is there a link to buy one somewhere? The strong field around the speaker cable isn't surprising given the high current, and that field may be one reason why cable elevators can help. Lying on the ground may distort that field which could affect the signal and sound. I saw a DIY elevator mentioned on agon that I plan to copy with large rubber bands, damping material, and 1 by wood stock. I plan to build little ones for the speaker cables and larger cable "trees" to help route and separate the many power cables behind my racks.

Thanks for all your work to write about these experiments. My system has never sounded better, and soon will take another big leap with 3045s. I'm really enjoying the flat Ugreens a lot, and feel pretty certain that adding the 3045 will remove the small dynamic hit. Is there any consensus on whether it's better to place the poe between 2 3045 or place the 2 3045 after the poe? It seems that if the main benefit of the poe is a kind of filter, then it might be better if both 3045 were after. Adding the better AQ cables will also be an exciting upgrade. What did Cinnamon do to the EQ vs ibra or flat ugreen?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:30 am 
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Hi Dan,

In my case I use PoE before and after my LT3045s. The before gives bigger bang, but I found the additional after gave a smaller lift too.

HF detail and Dynamics I find interesting. My experience is that RFI/EMI in my system can present as HF detail and dynamics, making it difficult to identify at times. When I added ferrites to my Mark Grant copper spdif edge reduced, I became more relaxed ....but the HF did recede somewhat. Listening to the stupidly expensive Audionote cables (£5k & £3k) ALL the detail and HF presence remained, but the edge was also gone. Made me realise what was possible.

Cheers,

M


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:56 am 
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danfl75 wrote:
Tubelover2 wrote:
Great review of the iFi AC Purifier - I really like mine.
Quote:
The iPurifier essentially trades textures and air for a much smoother and fuller sound
I like mine enough to keep it for now, but removing it reminds me how much I love the air and HF detail without the AC Pur. I think a great system should do more than just sound better than a good system, it should sound different. That sense of air is hard to achieve, and when present along with dynamics, the system gets closer to a live sound that many systems just don't have.
Hi danffl75, thanks for the great post. I did not detect any loss of air with the AC iPur - that is on the PB4x4Pro running the USB DDC stuff. But that weird little thing I imagine can react differently in different systems.

Quote:
I started with the AC Pur on the main outlet, but eventually moved it to the Art Audio PB4X4Pro I recently bought which now powers my mac mini, 2 DC-30W, and the RefLink. Putting it there let me split the difference WRT to air and the clarity in the mids - bass that the AC Pur creates. The 4Pro is now fed by the Furutech wall outlet that also supplies the Monster power which still has the power amp and DAC.

I like the Art Audio PB4X4Pro, and agree that's it's a killer value. It has a nice rich, full sound and definitely sounds better than outlet banks 3-5 on the Monster power. It seems to do a good job of knocking down the digital hash noise. 2 little nits, the rear light has no power switch and plugging it in when needed is more trouble than using a flashlight. The next models up have that switch but also come with electronic meters that might add noise. The other is the power cord is a little too long, too small and non-detachable. I think I lose a bit of dynamics and air as a result.

Rob, would you think there's enough room inside 4Pro for an IEC socket? I also wanted to replace the IEC on the DC-30W since they seem cheap and more loose that any I've used before. And what do you do with all the extra AC cord slack with 3 of these?
Glad you like the Art's - I have five. Three in the main system - one dedicated to the USB DDC chain, one for my DAC - those are both plugged in to a Blue Circle Puck that goes into a Synergistic Research Teslaplex AC socket. The third on a separate AC line for my music PC server. I would recommend disconnecting the little AC transformer inside the PB4x4Pros - they power the light and can vibrate and actually hum audibly. Two simple wires to disconnect. As for the AC cord - I agree a IEC would be better - although for powering my DAC and DDC chain on separate units not at all worried about current restrictions. And I use my 'Epitome+' (10awg/2.6mm silver plated copper) power chords to the DC-30W that powers the IR and USB hub and my DAC. That power chord adds great dynamics, besides strong EMI/RFI filtering and shielding. So adding a IEC to the PB4x4Pros is not something I would worry about. For the long AC chord is a plus as my AC socket is several feet from the shelfs I keep my gear on (all well away from my amp).

Quote:
I'm happy to see you going back to mundorf silver/gold for the last 6 inches. I knew you liked it initially and I guess just tried to find cheaper options? Then went to stranded silver and stranded silver plated copper and I was getting confused. I'd expect it's easier to get a direct soldered connection to LD3045 boards to hold if it's made with solid core wire that's bent around the board. I'm always interested in reducing plug in connections if possible, but I see the genius in your cable rolling configuration too.
Well the move to stranded silver plated copper Teflon was to get a tighter star quad twist - which is harder to do with solid core wire. You have to be careful due to solid core wires lower malleability. After some research I believe I've found a way to do a tight star quad twist with the Mundorf solid core silver/gold - that is to use a smaller gauge wire. Malleability is a function of gauge thickness - the thicker the wires' cross section the greater risk of 'cracking' when twisted.

Here are a couple of great ref sites:
https://www.wirebarn.com/Combined-Wire- ... ep_42.html
https://www.gore.com/IndustrialCableCon ... specs.html
So using four 24awg wires - in a star quad twist - equals approximately 21awg. So where 24awg has a current limit to 2A - 21awg is approx 4A. plenty for my purposes of less then 1A current. 18awg BTW is 7A and doubled equals 15awg at 12.5A - way overkill. The Mundorf S/G/T comes in 18awg and 24awg.

I'm amazed that the canare microphone, speaker and hook up cables that everyone was using before with fancy Oyaide connectors uses PVC for it's dielectic. PTFE Teflon is without a much better dielectic - followed by PE (depending on the quality). It's just very stiff and hard to twist. All my star quad DC cables use PTFE Teflon.
http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electr ... engths.htm

Quote:
A few thoughts about the last 6 inches since we know they're so very important. If cable routing and strain relief are good, why can't it be shorter? We know it's just DC but has rapidly changing current. Is the larger size silver-gold wire (1.5mm?) good enough or should we mix wire sizes for spread spectrum approach ala AQ? This will likely have EQ effects as well so may be system dependent, but I'm a treble whore so I'm always worried about losing that HF detail. If the gauges are mixed then we lose the pure symmetry of star-quad, but how important is that really in this application with good spacing and possibly mu-metal to avoid EMI? For example, a cable made of 6 wires 2ea: 1.5mm, 1mm, and 0.5mm that's twisted together would still have very low inductance.
1.5mm(approx 14awg) is way overkill for low current DC. I like plug and play gear - so directly wiring a LT3045 to a piece of gear is out for me. 6 inches is just enough to get a good connection to the IR which has a DC port very close to it's USB input - UGG! Sure wish Uptone used a bigger board and case with those further apart. With the stiffness of the four 18awg silver plated copper and teflon in a tight star quad twist and a layer of copper braid shielding makes a 30 degree bend possible at 6 inches. The good news with my EMI tester - the 500mA and 1A LT3045 boards put out 0.0 mG. So proximity is other sensitive gear is minimal.
Star quad only works with same gauge (spacing) wires. AQ uses different twists in the various twisted pairs to reduce cross talk and increase Ethernet bandwidth.

Quote:
That wire can be purchased without insulation. What do you think of loose tube teflon to further reduce dielectric interaction and space the shield further out? The individual wires could still be wound pretty tightly around each other, and the loose tube would provide spacing on the outer sides. Even though these cables don't carry a lot of current, they may be very sensitive to metal near them because it could affect the EM field they generate.

Did you see that AQ sells bulk cat cable that's 5% silver? If everything else is the same, then we'd have another option that's between Cinnamon and Vodka. The 2 meaningful reviews of vodka on Amazon were positive. One liked it a little better than Cin, and the other a little more so.
Loose tube wiring will not work with a tight star quad twist. Good to know on the bulk 5% silver - maybe will get some and a couple of Telegard connectors.

Quote:
Good work with the EMI sniffer. Is there a link to buy one somewhere? The strong field around the speaker cable isn't surprising given the high current, and that field may be one reason why cable elevators can help. Lying on the ground may distort that field which could affect the signal and sound. I saw a DIY elevator mentioned on agon that I plan to copy with large rubber bands, damping material, and 1 by wood stock. I plan to build little ones for the speaker cables and larger cable "trees" to help route and separate the many power cables behind my racks.
Sure Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Meterk-EMF-Met ... 2749.l2649
I have used the ceramic speaker cable risers in the past and still have them. Never heard any difference with or without them.
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Thanks for all your work to write about these experiments. My system has never sounded better, and soon will take another big leap with 3045s. I'm really enjoying the flat Ugreens a lot, and feel pretty certain that adding the 3045 will remove the small dynamic hit. Is there any consensus on whether it's better to place the poe between 2 3045 or place the 2 3045 after the poe? It seems that if the main benefit of the poe is a kind of filter, then it might be better if both 3045 were after. Adding the better AQ cables will also be an exciting upgrade. What did Cinnamon do to the EQ vs ibra or flat ugreen?
Glad you like the UGREEN flats. On the LT3045's on some gear they really help, on others it's minimal. On the IR I hear a bigger difference going from 7VDC to 5VDC. Now with PoE DC - I prefer it before the LT3045 and did not hear any change adding it to after. But that was with PoE DC.1 - not PoE DC.2 or PoE DC.3. So I may have to revisit that.

The AQ Cinnamon had greater clarity, more open sound, increased bass!, greater detail and transparency, then the Supra, IBRA, and UGREEN.

Now if you want HF and treble and everything else in knock your socks off levels - you HAVE to try the DUAL CAT PoE DC.3!
See my post over on the PoE thread. Bottom of page 9. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1465&start=120

Truly stunning.
Cheers!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:46 am 
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Interesting post from ASR on the June 30th 2018 review of the Yggy with Gen 5USB and 2 Analog:

Comparing a 20 yrs old ML 360S - which uses the R2R multi-bit PCM1704 chip like my ref DAC60.

Quote:
Jul 1, 2018#132
gvl said:
I hope you can get your hands on another quality oversampling multi-bit DAC, such as those from Soekris, and compare it to the Yggy, or even a vintage one from the 90s based on the 20-bit chips from that era, e.g. PCM63 or UltraAnalog. It would be more of an apples to apples comparison than putting it against a Delta-Sigma unit that's based on the (almost) top of the line ESS chip of current production. That said, there is no excuse for the mains noise.


Amir:
Your post was in the back of my mind when I thought about showing more FFT linearity measurements. So I went and ripped out my Mark Levinson No 360S which I purchased back in 1999 (?) from my main system. Based on specs I can find, it says it uses four PCM1704 DACs. Internally the PCM1704 is dual 23-bit multi-bit DACs used in sign magnitude implementation to avoid glitches (unlike AD DACs used in Schiit Yggdrasil). Here is the full specs: http://www.qlshifi.com/jszl/PCM1704.pdf

Here is how she did on the same FFT at power-on:
ML 360S DAC FFT Linearity Measurement.png

As we see, it clearly goes down to -140 dBFS albeit, with some error.

I found the manual and was fascinated by them specifying linearity error in there! https://www.manualslib.com/manual/63182 ... =44#manual

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Here is Linearity measurement using Jude's/AP script:

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As we see, it (in brown) easily beats the Yggdrasil DAC I tested (in red). But if the Yggy is now fixed to produce the blue graph per Jude's measurements, then it runs with it to better than -125 dB but from then on it gets worse.

Still 3 dB error at -140 dB for a 20 year old DAC is not so bad :).

I will run more tests on it when I have time.
Funny Amir uses a R2R PCM1704 based DAC in his ref main system! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Location: Umm Al Quwain, , AE
got a cases


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:46 am 
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Location: Göttingen, , DE
i want to power my network switch with ldovr, my switch is 5v 1a, can i just put two 500mA units in parallel?


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