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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:57 pm
Posts: 245
Location: Homestead, PA, US
Yes; more than double.Can you do it cheaply? Yes, many tweaks cost nothing or next to nothing. To a subtleed audiophile a 5% improvement is somewhat subtle, but clearly audible. So you can imagine what 30 times that improvement would be; or can you?
Some would say that attatching percentages to sound quality improvements is a little pushing it. In a way it is. Of course its very subjective. Even audio magazines that rate components & rank them in different classes, are doing something that is not without controversy. If you prize low distortion purity and smoothness and there is a speaker in class C that has it in spades, and another speaker, a grade above it in class B that has better clarity but lacks that velvety smoothness, then the real class B speaker for you is the former, not the latter.It all depends on the performance areas that are your priority, that you value most. There could even be a speaker in class D that does one thing so well, that if that one thing is your piece of cake, you might like it better than speakers several classes above.
If you have an amplifier that can drive 2 pairs of speakers at the same time, one thing to try is stacking speakers; 2 speakers per channel instead of one. The volume is shared between the 2 speakers per side and drivers that are not even sweating it, will have lower distortion. Driver distortion goes up with volume & down with less volume. Many decades ago people realized stacking Original Large Advent speakers gave a much better sound than using them as one pair. No matter what speakers you stack you will get a larger more spacious soundstage, better depth, lower distortion,better dynamics and a less "strained" sound and as a bonus your bass will sound like its 20 to 25% deeper in herz. Recently I even tried this with 2 pairs of speakers that were not even from the same manufacturer. One pair of speakers I liked in every way except one thing; it had a tweeter that was a little rolled off in the highs, so I put a speaker beneath it which had a more extended high end, and I got to have my cake and eat it too. They were both bookshelf models whose mid/woofers were within an inch of each other in diameter.I noticed no penalty in focus, as the drivers were good matches in transient response. You should not try this if you have speakers with too low an impudence like 4 ohms, as using 2 pairs halves the impe
dence.
Lots of people try a tweek or 2 and are not overly impreased by the amount of improvement. Why not try more tweaks.They add up; its additive.You shouldn't expect most tweek items to give more than about a 15% improvement. But find 10 tweaks that make about that much gain (each one) and you have a mind boggling difference; like a new system really.
There is all kinds of things to try. I recently went to a store and they had a 3 pack of air inflated balls for children I guess. They were all the same size to fit under the see through plastic: one was a mini soccer ball one a mini basketball etc.Putting those under my CD player in tripod configuration gave a better improvement than buying a new CD player within my price range. Use inflatable stuff like this under lighter components as they will deflate a little over time, perheaps not each at the same rate.Eye your suspended component every so often to make sure the front back and sides are holding fairly parrallel. The balls usually will not roll unless the component is bumped, but you might want to block off its perimeter with something to be safe, so it won't ever fall.
Another thing that recently helped my system considerably was adding a JPS power station. It has 4 outlets and a very thick low guage high quality power cord.My whole sound got cleaner, clearer and tighter with increased bass and quality of. Playing my equipment with the top cover off also made nice improvements across the board.Its not just turntable covers that rattle. Of course wires should not be touching each other and all cables should be off the floor. Sitting a few feet closer to your speakers can amaze you with how much more subtleties you are able to hear. Adding weight to whatever your components are sitting on, within reason; can also make improvements across the board. Tweaking does not substitute for having great equipment, but it can dramatically enhance whatever level of equipment you have.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:27 pm
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Location: Wakefield, MA, US
I believe what you've said. I was curious how you quantify sound quality.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:57 pm
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Location: Homestead, PA, US
It is a little primitive & subjective to quantify sound quality. I think I mostly base my percentages on openness and image size. If I do a tweak and a grand piano sounds 25% bigger in size than the last time I heard it and everything else sounds way better also, I might give it about a 25% improvement. There are very few tweaks that do not improve things all across the board. Its possible that a tweak might improve certain aspects of the sound a little more than others but for some reason I thinks its usually a fairly equal improvement across the board. If a certain tweak makes my sound less bright but I am actually hearing way more detail and the sound is way more open, that is in my opinion something that is probably beyond 25%.Louder sounds are easier to notice & hear and if they ssound less loud from less brightness and are still easier to hear and more texture with increased smoothness: a major improvement.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:07 am
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Location: Repentigny, QC, CA
Quote:
Many decades ago people realized stacking Original Large Advent speakers gave a much better sound than using them as one pair.


Audio buffs would do the same with esl57 Quad speakers. Even had special stands to do the job. Orchestral music was found to be better in scale.
But, things are not always improved - many who tried reverted to single sets of esl57's, since the 'intimacy' of that speaker was lost; users needed to sit further back to listen and something unique in the experience, for quiet musical passages, was lost.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Location: Homestead, PA, US
Interesting about the Quad esl57 stacking. Those are one of the vintage speakers I have always wanted to hear, along with the Ohm A & F models, Smell Type A III, Pioneer HPM 200 (very UN Pioneer like back then I hear), Beveridge electrostatics, & Shannon Obelisk. I have heard Quad 63s and various Acoustats, and the early Martin Logan & Soundlab. The later serial numbered Dahlquist DQ10's were voiced to sound like Quad 57's. There are people who have tried stacking those.
Just as our ears tell us "that can't be a real instrument because its sound is too small", our ears might also tell us when a musical instrument sound is too big. Notes sound louder if hit or plucked harder. If a harpist gently fingers a string the note will sound small, but if she really plucks it, the note will sound louder and much bigger. Perhaps stacking Quads gave too big a radiating area and some subtle sounds like that sounded too large. With box speakers the sound always sounds cleaner, warmer and the bass deeper.
You may know that in the 1980s there were dealers who would sell you the HQD system which was stacked Quad 57s with stereo 24 inch Hartley subwoofers and Decca super tweeters.I can see how something like that would lose a lot of subtlety. On YouTube there is a video of someone using Quad 57s with Yamaha ns1000 berrylium speakers, and it sounded good. Maybe lightweight berrylium drivers can keep up with electrostats.It sounded great over the limited sound of youtube.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:58 am
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Location: nmb, FL, US
whats good is you guys talking about tweeks costing dollars....i only know about the tweeks on the internet costing many thousands of dollars,like some of the bybee products..what is everyone's take on some of the insanely expensive tweeks..like this one for $7500.00 Dark Matter Power Conditioner.....i was an early buyer of still points for my speakers..i still use them..2000.00 for 4 that cost me...this is the room tweek i always wanted to try..Shakti Hallograph
$1,495.00


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:57 pm
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Location: Homestead, PA, US
I always prefer to find inexpensive ways to do things,if I can, rather than throwing good money at stuff. There are some instances where you have to perhaps, if you want to get to a certain level. Sometimes natural organic materials work best, or at least very well. I know there are cable manufacturers using organic materials for their cable sheathing, realizing how it can affect the sound; the skin effect etc. I have used, to good effect those little circular ham bones you get, when you buy a thick slice of ham at the grocery store. Bone probably does have good strength, density and natural impact resistance. I have not compared it with other footers under my components, but compared to using nothing underneath, the sound is better. Experimentation is a fun part of this hobby. More people should try stuff and see if there is something really good that others haven't thought of.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:15 pm
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Location: san juan capistrano, CA, US
Good component isolation, good power conditioning and treating room corners for bass resonance with ASC tube traps worked for me.

I tried Shakti Hallowgraphs and returned them to the retailer. They added unwanted brightness and mid range buzziness to my room. Kind of reminded me of turning the presence knob up too much on my Fender Guitar amp.

It was easy to hear the effect - drap a towel over them and it went away. I have tube amps and 107db Avantgarde Duo Mezzo speakers - very dynamic system with wide bandwidth that doesn't need more frequency extension or mid range energy


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